flat chisel back - only at cutting edge or along entire length?

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Bay Area Dave wrote:

Wow, thanks Dave. Charlie has more woodworking knowledge (and common sense) in his little finger than you could ever hope to get in your whole lifetime.
To be included in his company is high praise, indeed.
So what are you gonna do when your killfilter is complete and it's just you talking to yourself?
Chuck Vance Just say (tmPL) Oh, that's right ... you can't see this.
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Chuck Vance writes:

If he kill filters everyone who dislikes the way he answers posts, he shouldn't have anyone to talk to but his cat. If he has a cat.
#2, huh? Since I respond to his stuff about twice a year, I was expecting to be #899 or #900, so I am truly honored.
Charlie Self "Adam and Eve had many advantages but the principal one was that they escaped teething." Mark Twain
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Charlie Self wrote...

Done. (G) I bet you'd have won. I'm guessing you meant he'd neither stick to his guns nor retract it (to put it nicely).
Jim
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how does one "win" from an indefensible position? YOU, nor Charlie saw the chisel in question.
AND you still continue to stick your head in the sand about all the other negative Marples comments made by quite a few other Wreckers over the course of 3 different threads recently.
give it up.
you have your opinion, and a bunch of others have theirs. and NEVER the twain shall meet.
dave
Jim Wilson wrote:

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Bay Area Dave wrote...

Dave, how do you so often and so grossly misunderstand? Are you doing it on purpose??? Do I have a great big hook in my mouth?
Charlie was almost willing to bet on how you'd respond. He predicted correctly. So I said he would have won his bet. It had nothing to do with the chisel!

...and it has nothing whatever to do with opinion.
Jim
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Jim Wilson responds:

Yes. That or telling you you didn't know what you were talking about. But I guess even his nerve failed at that point.
Charlie Self "Adam and Eve had many advantages but the principal one was that they escaped teething." Mark Twain
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Jim Wilson wrote:

Thank you, Jim. That was exactly my point. I'm afraid that Dave long ago stopped reading for content in my posts and simply is looking for excuses to namecall. And frankly, I'm guilty of goading him on.
It's a fault of mine, and I'm trying to deal with it. :-)

Yes, and on some of the other threads relating to this, it does seem that there is a legitimate concern that since Marples was bought out by Rubbermaid, there may be more issues with QC. Time will tell.

Exactly. And my own experience has been more towards the good side.

And this was another point I was trying to convey earlier in a similar thread. You have to understand the limitations of the tool. I vary bevel angles depending on what I use a chisel for, and I adjust factory bevels on almost every single chisel I get. I even do that with mortise chisels; I raised a largish secondary bevel (actually looks more like a "hump" on the bevel) to give it a steeper angle which I've found holds up better under the abuse a mortise chisel is subjected to.
Thanks for being the voice of reason here, Jim. I know Dave has already (supposedly) dumped me into his killfile, so he may not see my response, but I hope he takes heed of all your comments.
Chuck Vance
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Conan the Librarian wrote...

Hey, I'm feeling a little twinge of the same guilt myself. (G)
Jim
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an some folks accuse ME of starting a ruckus around here??? :)
His ploys are so thinly disguised it's a no brainer to see he just wanted to piss me off. The best solution to maintain a bit of harmony around here is for me to avoid him and Charlie.
dave
Jim Wilson wrote:

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Dave:
Bring your Marples and Bucks when you wander by, I'd like to sharpen 'em up and see how they work. Have scraps of rosewood, maple, teak, ipe, mahogany (the King of Woods), sycamore, walnut, ash, beech (or it could be birch) and some cherry to play on.
And now you're going to have to try Jim's mortising chisels. If you roll and edge on one of his chisels you're doing something wrong.
charlie b
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Yeah, Charlie, I'll bring a few with me, probably next week. they are already sharp! easily cut the hairs on my arm at the slightest touch.
I was gonna tease you earlier about my bringing a 5 lb. sledge to whack your mortising chisels with! :)
dave
charlie b wrote:

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Am I the only one who is reminded of the chicken-hawk from the old Foghorn Leghorn cartoons?
Chuck Vance I say, son ... you're doing a lot of choppin', but no chips are flyin'.
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This is the part I think that makes me not buy something like Blue Chips. I don't mind "medium grade" chisels, but I expect them to be consistently medium grade or better with no substandard examples. If the company doesn't have quality control, then they are substandard and should be charging a substandard price. If they want to do better, then get some control over the process.
There isn't really any excuse for selling a chisel that has a convex back, short of shipping damage, or you are charging $1/chisel.
Perhaps my standards are too high.
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Jim,
I think the most obvious point has been missed entirely. How old are the chisels? Were they made this year or ten years ago; and have been sitting on the shelf since. Assumptions, always assumptions.
FWIW, I have a set of so-called Marples Blue-chip chisels that I purchased overseas, I am convinced they are a fraudulent copy but have no way to prove it - they do exist. Still, after grinding, squaring, flattening and sharpening they are ok for what I wanted, which was everything other than chopping mortices.
--
Greg

"Jim Wilson" < snipped-for-privacy@paragoncode.com> wrote in message
  Click to see the full signature.
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don't be a fraidy cat; just come right out and say "they suck".
dave
Greg Millen wrote:

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"Bay Area Dave" wrote in message ...

That's the point dave, they don't suck or I would have said so. To chop mortices they would suck, but bevel edge chisles are not designed for morticing, the angles are wrong, making the metal at the edge too thin generally. They were good value-for-money, not great, but I don't regret the purchase.
I bought the chisels in Malaysia in 1983-4, and have used them ever since, so I really can't say they suck with any conviction (not since I paid around AUS $10 for the set). Like most chisel sets I have used, when I got 1/4" or so back from the original edge they cut better anyway.
Try initiating a discussion centered on supportable facts and objective observations rather than histrionics and inflammatory remarks. It will mean you will need to stop trolling but you may find you like it.
BTW, you didn't answer how old the chisels were - do you know if they are old or new stock? I didn't think so.
Greg
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calm down, greg...are you ALWAYS so serious? You and I never are on the same wave length. you can't sense a tongue-in-cheek comment if it smacked you silly. sigh.
the marples I tried was just a few months ago. NOT the Bluechip; it was a ProTouch or pro whatever. black rubberized handle. I mentioned all that in the initial complaint post back when I purchased it. I didn't use it to open paint cans.
Friday I spent a bit of time with 2 Sears chisels on a mortise and found minimal edge damage after at LEAST 15-20 times more tool usage than the Marples or Buck. The amount of damage I'd estimate as around 20% as bad. That's a heck of a lot more longevity I'm getting from the Sears chisels. I'm SURE there are plenty of other brands that are way better than my lowly Sears but at least they are light years better than the Marples and Buck I tried. It goes without saying I didn't try 100 samples of either. and I've no intention of trying a second sample.
dave
Greg Millen wrote:

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"Bay Area Dave" wrote in message ...

The meaning was clear, or did I miss an emoticon or similar indicator? I thought not. You can't change the meaning retrospectively dave, take the time to be more careful initially and you may find you don't have to bother with such posts in response. I hardly need to add that you seem to be almost universally "misunderstood", the only common factor is yourself. Please dwell on that a little.

I was responding to Jim's post, not yours. which is why the name "Jim" started the post, to focus the response to him.
FWIW, I happen to think you may have a point regarding the chisels but have done an abysmally poor job of presenting it. Your initial post stated you used a bevel edged chisel for mortising and you had a Sears chisel that kept it's edge longer.
I don't recall you mentioning the chisels were of similar age, cost, construction, thickness, bevel angle, side bevel angle or overall length. You also didn't mention whether the Sears chisel was sharpened to the same degree as the Marples. All of these are factors if you are to fairly compare them.
Finally, you would need to compare them in the purpose for which they are originally designed - chopping mortices is not that purpose.
Greg
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http://www.despair.com/demotivators/dysfunction.html
FWIW, the initial grind on Marples Blue Chip bench chisels is way too delicate for morticing. My set of Blue Chips, while hardly aesthetically pleasing, were rather serviceable for the time I used them. For various reasons, I upgraded to Two Cherries (also too delicate for pounding out mortices, BTW).
Just another data point.
O'Deen
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snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com (Patrick Olguin) wrote in message wrote to the BAD One (in part):

I love that site. Here's another one for BAD:
http://www.despair.com/stup24x30pri.html

Oh sure, you're just another one of those wreck idiots who dares to question the results that BAD got. You keep posting facts and you're going right into that killfile (along with every other wrecker of note).
Chuck Vance
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