don't blame yourself. Blame Chuck (Conan) for his utter lack of self control. He even admitted he went into bait mode; all because he and I aren't exactly the best of buds. :)
Keep posting!
dave
foo wrote:
He doesn't blame himself. He is expressing disappointment. He doesn't blame Chuck either. Nor should he.
Jim
Thanks, Jim. What's sad is that I really was going to avoid the urge to slap Dave around a little until he posted the following:
The sheer hubris (look it up, Dave) of it was more than I could stand.
FWIW, my comments about using the chisels this past week were absolutely true. But I had decided I would not post any more of my own experiences with them, since it serves no purpose. I had even resisted the urge to address his comments about "wreck idiots" (i.e., folks who disagree with him, and/or have more knowledge or experience than him).
But when he posted that load above ... well, I just lost it. :-)
Chuck Vance
Just in case there is anyone reading this thread for any reason other than "entertainment value", I would recommend that you do a Google groups advanced search of the wreck on the phrase "blue chips". Add a qualifier like "value" or "bargain" to limit the search if needed.
I'm sure you'll find that these chisels have been widely-regarded as a good value. Not great, but decent, and worth the money.
It is certainly possible that the newer ones are suffering from QC issues, but I don't think it's wise to dismiss the experiences of *many* knowledgeable wooddorkers (certainly a heckuva lot more than 10) just because Dave says it's so.
FWIW, even the folks who said that Blue Chips are a good value warned that you still have to be aware of the possibility of getting a bad one in the bunch.
Chuck Vance
that's mighty presumptuous of you.
dave
Jim Wils>
hey, don't forget folks who simply have more *chisels* than him.
There you go again.
we could keep this up all day. there YOU go again! :)
dave
Jim Wils> Bay Area Dave wrote...
Layne, Daniel, et al.,
It's my understanding that, although a flat chisel back is optimal, a slightly convex shape down the length is acceptable. Concave along its length is absolutely no good. 1mm along the length of a Blue Chip doesn't seem too outrageous since they have relatively long blades. Only try to polish the business end of the back and they should work fine. Just my opinion.
Cheers, Mike
Alan, with all due respect, reasoning with BAD is akin to reasoning with a brand new baseball sitting on a tee, with the outfield fence just a few feet shy of 200'. Reasoning would be inappropriate. So, ya limber up a little bit, take a slightly uppercut swing and watch it sail out of the tiny park. Not very challenging, but somewhat satisfying as you put your gear away and go do something productive.
Best regards, O'Deen
obww - allowing one's shellac top-coat to dry that extra week or so makes rubbing-out a ridiculously easy experience, as the shellac has thoroughly hardened, and still cuts easily with whatever abrasive it is you've chosen.
Jim,
I think the most obvious point has been missed entirely. How old are the chisels? Were they made this year or ten years ago; and have been sitting on the shelf since. Assumptions, always assumptions.
FWIW, I have a set of so-called Marples Blue-chip chisels that I purchased overseas, I am convinced they are a fraudulent copy but have no way to prove it - they do exist. Still, after grinding, squaring, flattening and sharpening they are ok for what I wanted, which was everything other than chopping mortices.
don't be a fraidy cat; just come right out and say "they suck".
dave
Greg Millen wrote:
That's the point dave, they don't suck or I would have said so. To chop mortices they would suck, but bevel edge chisles are not designed for morticing, the angles are wrong, making the metal at the edge too thin generally. They were good value-for-money, not great, but I don't regret the purchase.
I bought the chisels in Malaysia in 1983-4, and have used them ever since, so I really can't say they suck with any conviction (not since I paid around AUS $10 for the set). Like most chisel sets I have used, when I got 1/4" or so back from the original edge they cut better anyway.
Try initiating a discussion centered on supportable facts and objective observations rather than histrionics and inflammatory remarks. It will mean you will need to stop trolling but you may find you like it.
BTW, you didn't answer how old the chisels were - do you know if they are old or new stock? I didn't think so.
Greg
calm down, greg...are you ALWAYS so serious? You and I never are on the same wave length. you can't sense a tongue-in-cheek comment if it smacked you silly. sigh.
the marples I tried was just a few months ago. NOT the Bluechip; it was a ProTouch or pro whatever. black rubberized handle. I mentioned all that in the initial complaint post back when I purchased it. I didn't use it to open paint cans.
Friday I spent a bit of time with 2 Sears chisels on a mortise and found minimal edge damage after at LEAST 15-20 times more tool usage than the Marples or Buck. The amount of damage I'd estimate as around 20% as bad. That's a heck of a lot more longevity I'm getting from the Sears chisels. I'm SURE there are plenty of other brands that are way better than my lowly Sears but at least they are light years better than the Marples and Buck I tried. It goes without saying I didn't try 100 samples of either. and I've no intention of trying a second sample.
dave
Greg Millen wrote:
The meaning was clear, or did I miss an emoticon or similar indicator? I thought not. You can't change the meaning retrospectively dave, take the time to be more careful initially and you may find you don't have to bother with such posts in response. I hardly need to add that you seem to be almost universally "misunderstood", the only common factor is yourself. Please dwell on that a little.
I was responding to Jim's post, not yours. which is why the name "Jim" started the post, to focus the response to him.
FWIW, I happen to think you may have a point regarding the chisels but have done an abysmally poor job of presenting it. Your initial post stated you used a bevel edged chisel for mortising and you had a Sears chisel that kept it's edge longer.
I don't recall you mentioning the chisels were of similar age, cost, construction, thickness, bevel angle, side bevel angle or overall length. You also didn't mention whether the Sears chisel was sharpened to the same degree as the Marples. All of these are factors if you are to fairly compare them.
Finally, you would need to compare them in the purpose for which they are originally designed - chopping mortices is not that purpose.
Greg
"Greg Millen" wrote to the BAD One (in part):
Just another data point.
O'Deen
Oh sure, you're just another one of those wreck idiots who dares to question the results that BAD got. You keep posting facts and you're going right into that killfile (along with every other wrecker of note).
Chuck Vance
were slightly concave across the chisel width they'd okay, but convex down it's length is not good.
Mike schreef
Imagine you're paring a bit of wood off of the wall of a mortise. The back of the chisel serves to keep the edge of the chisel cutting along a single plane. The benefit of a flat back should be apparent. If the back has a concave curve along its length, the edge will tend to dig in rather than maintain a flat cut. If the back has a convex curve, the edge will tend to come out of the cut. This can be compensated for by slightly adjusting the angle of the chisel relative to the wood, but I don't think you can compensate for the concave situation. I could be missing something here so please fill me in if you have a different conclusion.
Cheers, Mike
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