Why Don't Manufacturers Flatten the Backs of Edged Tools

Charlie --

As you've discovered...

and to them, that's:

Better to have you do it for free than have you buy someone else's Chinese chisels for $10 less.

I agree with you WHOLEHEARTEDLY.... Flatting chisel backs is tedious work, and telling yourself you only have to do it once is little comfort.

You think it couldn't be THAT much extra work for them with automated machinery and all.

"charlie b" wrote

I have discovered that all my new chisels were slightly crosswise concave when I started the flattening. The appearance was like a very shallow version of Japanese chisels.

I guess that some kind of mild distortion occured after manfacture.

Jeff

charlie b apparently said,on my timestamp of 5/08/2004 2:25 PM:

$$$$$$

Hints: Those diamond stones (DMT?) are precious for this sort of thing: fastest cut I've ever seen. The rough blue one.

I've seen in a book another technique: use a small grinding stone in a Dremel-like tool to take the humps down quickly. Then finish with normal or water stones. If you take too much, it will re-set itself as the edge is used up. Kinda like a hollow-back Japanese chisel, but not as much so you don't need to tap it out.

I second that. The DMT stones don't dish like waterstones, and the XC-C-F-XF progression flattens backs FAST. I also like WD-40 lubed sandpaper on a jointer bed for flattening backs.

My Hirsch bench chisels, that purportedly are the same as Two Cherries, took less than an hour to flatten seven backs.

I like waterstones for sharpening, but prefer the other methods for the initial back flattening. I also only work about the first inch or so of the back.

Barry

Spehar does surface-grind their plane blades after heat-treating. Very quick to lap and get working.

Ed

I feel your pain and frustration, Charlie. My solution? The Veritas MKII power sharpening system. With this system I am able to flatten & hone a bench chisel (and I'm seeing very little difference between a Marples blue chip or a two cherries or even a Sears craftsman) in about 5-10 minutes. Although there have been warnings about using this system with plane irons (for flattening the backs), I've done it easily and successfully on about 7 irons thus far. So, to me, this is the ticket and well worth the price of admission (and works a LOT better than the Tormek - for flat-edged tools, not turning tools).

Mike

If you really think about it how many times in a lifetime will you be doing such an operation. Obviously it saves the manufacturer money but at the same time it forces the purchaser to get used to the idea that you will need to maintain 'em from the get-go. Besides who is to guess what happens to those tools before they get to there new home. I personally love my time sharpening tools and know that a machined 600 grit and power polish would pale in comparison to my scary sharp flattened backs . But I'm just a hobbyist and don't mind spending the extra time as long as I'm in the shop... But your point is taken where did we loose that quality along the way....

EJ

Nothing except maybe the Veritas power system can compare to the beginning lapping method of 220 grit paper on glass or granite lubed with lamp oil.

Unless you have some cryogenically treated irons. Then nothing speeds the process. Everyone seems ot forget that the property that keeps the edge means it takes much longer to gett the edge.

On Thu, 05 Aug 2004 05:00:51 GMT, "John Moorhead" calmly ranted:

True.

Buy a coarse diamond plate and it'll go in a minute or 2. Of course, I just do the last 1/2-1" or so, then will touch up more as the chisel wears.

You've just been added to the DHS WANTED list, dude.

- - - Brain cells come and brain cells go, but fat cells live forever. ---

My japanese bench chisels and plane irons arrived fully flattened and honed. A shokunin blacksmith would never let go his product without sharpening and honing it perfectly.

Claude

You act as if the manufacturers are trying to do more than make your money theirs.

I think it's one factor why some people try wood working and then give up. Everything I have purchased claimed in the advertisement to be honed and ready for use "right out of the package". Probably okay if your working with pine. But as soon as you hit a hardwood, your in for a case of frustration.

Unless of course, you reach for the claw hammer and start bashing the heck out of your new chisels. "I'm thinking of my brother here"...

End result, some will end up disappointed and give up. That seems counter productive if your trying to encourage more people to but your tools.

Pat

What kind, brand and model are they? Alex

Flat backs ?

...

In addition to doing the coarse removal, the DMT Duostones are really nice for flattening the waterstones, too. A med/fine Duostone used in conjunction with a combo 1000/4000 waterstone has been an economical and efficient route for me.

Great point! Me too.

The DMT stones are very handy. I also like them for scrapers, as I can't accidentally destroy the surface with the skinny scraper edge.

Barry

Yes Andy, flat, flat, flat.

"Andy Dingley" a écrit dans le message de news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com...

Well, Lie Nielsen seems to understand that making a quality tool, then preparing it so it can be used out of the box, is good business. Veritas understands the idea as well, as does Steve Knight. I'd gladly pay an additional $5 to get a flat backed chisel or iron.

charlie b

Most of us here would. The guy trying to decide between the Buck Brothers and Stanley set probably would not. Ed