Sharpening Stones

[Puckdropper]

Lee Valley's doing free shipping, so I thought I'd take a look at their offerings. I've got a set of their water slip stones that work nicely, but I don't want to mess them up for some of the other things I've been sharpening.

Arkansas stones seem appealing, as do water stones. What do you have experience with and would recommend? I'll be near a Grizzly in a few days as well, so if they've got something to look at I'll spend my Lee Valley money on something else.

I intend to use the stones to handle general sharpening, but do my chisels on the bench grinder. I might refine the edge on the stones. (If you don't have a good tool rest you NEED one. It's a totally different tool with a good tool rest!)

I also refine the edge of 1/4" HSS tool bits for the metal lathe. The grinder also creates the primary cutting faces for this.

I've got a pocket knife and other assorted cutting tools. I understand sickle blades are done with a curved stone, not the traditional flat stone. (The slip stones did a good job. It didn't hurt when the stone slippped and I sliced my finger.)

What about flattening the stone?

I really don't have any concerns about the primary sharpening, as most of my primary sharpening and shaping takes place on the bench grinder (the rest is THAT good.) Would a really fine stone be useful for something like the metal lathe toolbits? (I know I'm a little off topic here, but I've noticed a couple members mention their metalworking addiction.)

Before anyone asks, here's the link to the grinder rest:

There was a problem with one of them where nothing stayed tightened down due to sliding surfaces. I used ordinary paper to provide some friction and it worked great.

Puckdropper

[dadiOH]

I've shaved with straight razors for 65 years, use Arkansas stones on them if needed. I have never felt the need to use them on chisels, knives, etc.

[Casper]

I quit using Arkansas and switched to diamond, ceramic and hones. I use diamond if they are in bad shape or need to be reprofiled. I use ceramic to put a better edge/angle on it. I hone on leather, cork or sandpaper for razor sharpness. I have been seen honing on cardboard when nothing else was at hand. On rare occasion, I still use an Arkansas only if it's the only option I have on hand. I find ceramic stones stay cleaner, flatter and are simpler to use. No oil, water or mess and clean up with an old toothbrush or eraser.

I've never used a bench grinder for sharpening. I do not like how much material it takes off, the heat that builds, or the noise and mess.

I've used mostly flat stones of various sizes for the size of the tool. For extremely large blades, I move a small stone along the length. Yes, I have sharpened and restored swords.

For the few curved tools I own, I have a couple curved slipstones and a profiled leather hone board for the various shapes.

Never used one or have had a need to as my stones are still flat.

Most turners I know use a grinder or Tormek. I could not justify the cost of a Tormek. I picked up various shaped stones for my turning tools and carving tools. Takes be a but longer if the edge is torn up but I usually touch up edges as I work so I've never had a need to grind them. Only once I needed that when I picked up a used tool and then the guys at the local wood store let me try the Tormek on it.

I love sharp pointy things. Does that count for metalworking?

[Dr. Deb]

I use a slow speed 8" grinder and wolverine jig for my turning gouges. The skews and all my bench chisels, paring chisels and plane irons I sharpen on diamond (4000) and then finish on wet/dry sandpaper, going up to 2500. I also set them at 25degrees.

[John Grossbohlin]

Any system will work... that said, I mostly use Arkansas bench stones though I do have some course artificial stones to put relief in edges. Most of the stones I bought about 30 years ago and added a large black stone maybe 15 years ago. I also have a two wheel slow speed vertical grinder, a slow speed vertical grinder with a course wheel, a horizontal blade/knife grinder with water drip, angle grinder, valve grinder, and myriad files, slips, and other specialty stones. I acquired different sharpening items as the needs arose. I'm now set up to sharpen everything from kitchen knives to hand and powered woodworking tools, lawn mower blades, chainsaw chains, brush cutting blades, brush hooks, ditch bank blades, shovels, picks, post hole diggers, loppers, saws, etc. I must say that there is something special about being able to shave the hair off your arm with a machete. ;~)

If you buy a good set of large Arkansas stones they'll last you a lifetime without flattening if you use the whole stone rather than hollowing out some areas through repeated use of those areas. Yes it will cost you $200.00-300.00 for a bench set of large soft, medium, hard, and black hard stones but viewed as a lifetime investment it's not so bad. Avoid buying the less expensive stones... they are either too small and limited when it comes to working on plane irons and large knives, or the thin ones are that are glued to a wooden base only have one usable side. A large course artificial stone speed up creating relief or repairing damaged tools. I've got a large Norton stone for such purposes but a good quality diamond stone would be a fine substitute.

[Michael]

he skews and all my bench chisels, paring chisels and plane irons I sharpen on diamond (4000) and then finish on wet/dry sandpaper, going up to 2500. I also set them at 25degrees.

Someday I will invest in a slow grinder for my turning tools. For bench too ls, I use the scary sharp system with a metal honing jig w/ wheel. I glued

4 different 1/2 sheets with increasingly fine grits to a flat ceramtic floo r tile and work through them. Sometimes I'll very lightly use a bench grind er for the initial profile. I also mark a notch on my tools or plane blades that match a mark on my honing jig so I stay consistent with the angle. Th is system may not be the absolute best but it's fast and easy.

[Puckdropper]

Casper wrote in news: [e-mail]:

Do you use any sort of compound?

I won't argue the noise and mess, but it really does do a good job with the right jig. I've gotten better edges off the grinder and honed with a Work Sharp than I ever did running through the grits. I wonder if the hollow grind has anything to do with it?

Do you consider a Machette to be a form of sword? I was kinda thinking about how similar it looks. I've got a better edge on the machette than I used to, but haven't quite found the right technique yet.

Do you create a rounded bevel? I saw that suggested for some chisels as a way to keep more metal near the cutting edge while still allowing the cutting edge to cut easily.

Sometimes! Do you like smooth round things as well? We use the sharp pointy things to make smooth round things. :-)

Puckdropper

[nailshooter41]

On Tuesday, July 18, 2017 at 11:05:28 PM UTC-5, [e-mail] wro te:

Machetes are brush/grass cutters that are made for field use. Typically a high carbon steel, they are made to be sharpened with the most crude tools available to the user. They are hardened to a Rockwell of less than 50 pts (not all, and RC testing is pointless as quality control on most machete p roduction is poor, which is why they are cheap!) making them easy to sharpe n with a #8 Mill Bastard file.

To get a "convex" edge on my thicker camp machete, I use my 1x30 belt sande r and grind just above the platen, making it almost like a slack belt grind er. Then touch up with a file as needed. You would be surprised at how ea sy this technique is, and widely used it is by outdoorsmen.

Here is a look at the different edge profiles that are readily achieved for edged tools:

I think a convex edge would be very poor for a chisel as that is the way mo st chisels wind up, whether it was intended or not. Convex is still good f or hogging out material, but you can't do a planing push cut, nor can you h old a line when mortising. Try it; make a mark in a piece of soft wood and drive your chisel in at the mark. You will see it functions as a splitter , opening both sides of your line instead of keeping one side at a 90.

At least that's my experience.

Robert

[G Ross]

A convex or double angle edge works pretty good for a cold chisel. Would never use it on a wood chisel.

[Casper]

Yes. For most hardened metals I use Flexcut Gold. I've got a ton of it, lasts forever, and works very well.

For other metal types, especially softer, I use a couple different compounds. Mostly green and red but occasionally white and black.

I've used those on leather, cork and even cardboard. Nifty trick to sharpen up a pocketknife using nothing but a tiny bit of compound and a piece of cardboard box. Gets lots of Ooohs and Ahhhs. ;)

Stones work well for general shapening.

Hollow grinds can be tough w/o a turning stone. I've got a few old Cutco's that are very difficult to sharpen any other way. For those kinds of things I stick to slow and wet wheel grinding or belts.

Cutco resharpens, BUT are now known to send new knives instead. My set is over 60 years old and I have yet to see another set like it.

Ha! Sorta. Machete is a tool, albeit a long one. I no longer own one.

I do a lot of sharpening and restoration. I just finished a German carving set (knife, fork and steel hone) for my BiL. His grandfather's well used but not well cared for set with stag handles badly dried, steel heavily scratched/chipped, and silver bolsters black. Now looks almost new. One partial scratch still on knife (almost gone) left only because further work would remove maker stamp. Now saddest thing about this set is the box, basically covered cardboard and falling apart.

Two items I received last week to start work on are two steel swords. One is 50" long, 39" blade and weighs approx 7lbs. The second is 39" long, 32" blade and weighs approx 2lbs. Pommels are large steel balls. Handles wrapped in leather and twisted copper wire.

They belong to a friend would not let me do anything with them. Oddly he had me clean and preserve his Spanish sword. These two have a fair amount of rust and have darkened. Friend is moving. I asked what his plans were for them and he said to give them to me. Now they are mine and await restoration. I have a plan to embelish them a bit. Once done, I may sell the larger and just keep the smaller. I'm getting too old to play with those heavy blades anymore. ;)

You mean a convex edge? If so, for certain tools and knives I do. Usually axes and bushcraft style knives. It really depends on the tool, what it's intended purpose is, and metal type.

Yes, I like smooth rounds things too. I have made a few of those too.

[Casper]

What angle are you sharpening them at?

These CAN be used as a machete...

Swords I linked currently have very dull convex edges. They're not really intended for cutting. I will reprofile the edges on at least one but not make them very sharp for safety reasons. They can however be made very sharp. I may also create a wall mount for them. They were made to be carried, and sheaths are available, but bad to store steel in leather and you can't really see it to appreciate it that way.

[Sonny]

Check out John's post on abpw, "Mans Ingenuity".

[G Ross]

Thanks for that link. I see that stuff on the internet never really goes away. There was ol' Lew! I miss him.

BTW what was that first picture supposed to depict?

[Sonny]

Looks like an old drill (upside down) with a pulley attached/chucked up, the belt of which would drive the lower pulley, which has a grinding stone on the arbor/axle (left side).... all attached to a backboard (metal plate?), mounted on the wall.

Sonny

[Bill]

That's a fancy pencil holder... : )

Bill

[Michael]

I picked up a Work Shop WS-3000 for $45.00 on Craiglist today to sharpen my lathe tools. Has anyone used it for this purpose? Any advice?

Thanks,

Mike

[nailshooter41]

my lathe tools. Has anyone used it for this purpose? Any advice?

I don't know how people do that. Around here, I have watched Craigslist of f and on for years, and never have I seen a bargain.

Anyway, the 3000 does all kinds of great things, and folks have developed t heir own appliances and jigs to use with it to sharpen just about anything. (A word or warning... don't be tempted to sharpen your knives on the 3000 , not even with their guide system.)

To get a good look at what is possible, go to YouTube and search "Worksharp ". Lots of good videos, sure something there to at least give you an idea on technique, use of grits, etc.

Robert

[Michael]

n my lathe tools. Has anyone used it for this purpose? Any advice?

off and on for years, and never have I seen a bargain.

their own appliances and jigs to use with it to sharpen just about anythin g. (A word or warning... don't be tempted to sharpen your knives on the 30

00, not even with their guide system.)

rp". Lots of good videos, sure something there to at least give you an ide a on technique, use of grits, etc.

Robert,

Thanks for the great information! I didn't realize it was so versatile.

I set up IFTTT.com to send me an email any new Craigslist posts with the wo rd "woodworking." I've bought a few things that way. IFTTT sends an email about 2 hours after the initial Craigslist post.

Mike

[John Grossbohlin]

The best deals I have found were the result of checking Craigslist multiple times each day... and having cash in hand and being able to move quickly. I've had people pull in the seller's driveway behind me (floor sander)... The good stuff at good prices goes very fast!

When I post stuff for sale I'm not trying to get the last dollar out of it, I'm usually trying to get rid of it for the space it takes up. I put an Ikea loft bed on there last fall for about 60% of what others were asking for the same bed. When the buyer showed up she asked for more off... I knocked another bit off that got it down to about 50% of the others. Little did she know I would have given it to her to get it out of my house! LOL

[Casper]

I manually search when I have time but mainly I use their feature to create your own searches which can be set to message you when an item (like woodworking, saw, etc.,) comes up new.

James Wright talks about it in his YouTube videos as that is how he gets his cheap or free wood and tools...

Got any tools or other things you still need to get rid of?? (smile)

It always amazes me how people try to talk you down even though they already know they are getting a good deal. I do my homework to keep my prices fair based on cost and condition.

I sold a secretary+hutch not long ago. Solid cherry, 40+ years old, and still looked new. No damage except one spot on top of desk where movers had damaged it and then attempted a (bad) repair. It was hidden when the hutch was on so I never bothered to repair it further. I sold it to a woman who I let talk me down another 20%. It was already 60% less than others in worse shape that were listed. I sold it to her because I was tired of seeing it sit unused anymore. Better someone else use and love it than it collect dust in my house.

Funny part is she was not interested in the matching chair. I never told her the story of how long and hard my mother searched to get that chair. It was a special custom order that took almost a year to get. The lone chair stis in my guest room until sold or redone more modern.

I've gotten to the point where I no longer want things around that are unused or take up space that could be put to better use.