Japanese waterstones questions

[AAvK]

Hey everyone, I have decided to move on to waterstones for sharpening, using the scary sharp system has become too tedius because of the length of time it takes, I have tardive disconesia (a nerve disease) in my hands and forearms, not good for the more finite muscle control and it hurts. I read that waterstones cut much faster than anything else, which sounds good to me.

I have been looking at stones online here and there, have seen the Norton ones, and they seem too high in cost for the double grits though they are the right width at 3". This would be good considering wider blades. With those two stones, Craftsmanstudio.com will throw in the stone holder for free. Still too much in actual dollars there at $99.50, but I have seen many Japanese stones at really decent prices, in every grit and nominal size imaginable.

Anyone have the ideal plan of purchase for budget and size I could follow, for wider stones and decent quality? I don't know which stones wear down faster or slower... "what sould I buy???"

[Bob in Oregon]

I have the Norton stones 1000, 4000, and 8000 grit. A full set will cost close to $200 dollars if you include a Veritas pond (a must, IMHO) from Lee Valley. I have heard that Shapton are good too. You can find cheaper, but probably not in the wider size and of less quality.

I dont know how much faster they will cut than SS though.

Since you mentioned a nerve disease, I would take a serious look at a Tormek system, which is a slow-grind water based grinder.

[CW]

[J]

I'm all for the shaptons. They last long. Here is what I wrote about them:

matter how fast they cut I'm not sure they are going to help your condition. I'd consider using a machine.

-j

[Bruce Barnett]

Woodcraft has a motorized waterstone for about $80 on sale for May.

[Scorp]

Be aware the waterstones will also need flattening more often as quicker cutting = faster wear.

Steve Jensen Abbotsford B.C. Surfing along at 19200 bps since 95. BBS'ing since 1982 at 300 bps. WW'ing since 1985

Nothing catchy to say, well maybe..... WAKE UP - There are no GODs you fools!

[arw01]

I just made the change from SS to shaptons. They cut WAY faster than SC sandpaper. They also make a much sharper tool. You can spend less than a minute on teh 5000 stone and then move to the 8000 stone and spend a few seconds. Using microbevels like Charlesworth teaches on his videos.

On the low end of shaping I would use a machine with your condition, but my 1000 grit shapton takes iron off faster than my courser diasharp. You can see the scratches from the diamond are larger than the scratches from the 1000 shapton.

If the budget allows a 220 shapton would REALLY hog off the material.

But you have to be ablet to flatten the stones. I use the diasharp for this, so all in I have about $270 in:

1000 shapton 5000 shapton 8000 shapton course diasharp stone

I'm thinking of adding the 11000 and the 220 to my arsenal. They are really that impressive.

Alan

[Knotbob]

I have so much money tied up in waterstones, Veritas pond and a

220/400 diamond stone for lapping and fast grinding that I should have cut to the chase and bought the Tormek System. I can get stuff scary sharp with the waterstones and it has been a "right of passage" learning to do the work that gets my tools sharp and from that aspect I am glad I have the skill to do it that way. If you used the "scary sharp" method you understand the work involved. Let a machine do the work for you especially since you have problems with wrists and hands. Get the Tormek period. You can end up with $800 worth of Tormek stuff but you don't have to buy all the jigs up front and it works great. Order the video if you aren't sure. It will be $10-15 well spent before you decide the wrong way. Robert Smith Jacksonville, Fl.

[B a r r y]

I'm fully equipped with waterstones and diamond plates but got to try Shapton stones during a class. If I was starting from scratch, I'd go with the Shaptons. They really are that good.

Barry

[BillyBob]

It takes me about 1-2 minutes per stone. I don't think its that big a deal. I use a 220 grit wet/dry sandpaper glued to a sheet of glass.

Bob

[Gary A in KC]

Bob - I have to second the opinions on the Tormek system. I've used oilstones and waterstones for years for my sharpening (mostly chisels and plane irons - no turning or carving implements). Bought the Tormek at the last wookworking show a few months ago. Went through and resharpened everything in my tool cabinet in an afternoon. The hair on my arm where I tested each blade is just starting to grow back. It was easy and consistent. And especially for my plane irons, very easy to get a nice perpendicular edge set on the blade. In some ways I feel like I've copped out and taken the easy way to sharpen, but after thinking about it - why not do it the easy way. Best $400 bucks I've spent in my shop in a long time.

Gary in KC

[else24]

sharpening,

sounds

Yeah, waterstones cut pretty fast and a lot of people say the Shaptons cut the fastest and wear the longest. I've got a set of Shaptons, and in my opinion they do cut faster - but not by a lot. Your arms and fingers are still going to get a workout, believe me.

If your intention is making your woodworking life easier, I'd say get a Tormeck. I think it'll be a little slower, certainly more money and there's probably a whole new learning curve, but I bet you'd save a lot of wear and tear on your arms.

In fact, your sort of situation is about the only thing that would make me consider the Tormeck system or something like it. It looks like it would do the job just as well as the combination of a good set of stones, practice, and elbow grease. If'n it hurt to apply the elbow grease, I wouldn't like woodworking so much.

My hat's off to ya. Hang in there.

[petermichaux]

you might want to watch this video

[AAvK]

That is interesting, there are a few others out there the same including Sears but they are all copies of the original Makita which is much more expensive, I'd bet they come out of the same factory. They all only have both 1000 and

400 grit 7" wheels, with only 2 actual inches cutting width unless the rounding distance is used with a knife jig. the woodcraft one is a nice 440 rpm, the Sears is 550. I just don't have the room for a machine.

[AAvK]

Yeah, me knowing German "me", I would get the Tormek no problem, but I do not have the room or that much $$$... awesome looking machine. I saw it being used at a Rockler store recently, VERY slow spinning, well made. I am only looking to spend about $100.

[AAvK]

Oh yes! Even the diff between SS and Arkansas oil stones is too good and too much. I tried it at the adult ed. shop with their Ark stone and an india. If water stones are faster than the oil stones, that's the way to go big bro...

[AAvK]

So, I have $100 only, I couldn't afford the three grits you initialy bought as in your page, in the M5 range I could get a 180 - 2000 - 5000 as I've priced, would that work effectively? Do you know the cheapest place to grab'em?

[AAvK]

I have read that too, I found the cheapest flattening stone of good size is made by Norton for 24.95 right here:

rather than the usual $70... I think drywall screen can be used, and low grit papers.

[AAvK]

May I ask, what adhesive do you use? I have 3m super 77 and it is definitely not waterproof.

[Ba r r y]

I flatten with a coarse DMT diamond plate.

It works like a CHARM!

Barry