Another reason to not shop at Lowes

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Nova wrote:

You're in a large enough population area to be moderately well-insulated against the effect. Fortunate for you--you will probably continue to have (at least slightly reduced) choice for the forseeable future. Others is smaller markets such as here know full well the actual consequences.... :(
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Duane Bozarth wrote:

I agree. The Buffalo area has always been a competitive market. The "mom and pop" hardware stores continue to survive because they have build their business by offering specialized service filling a particular niche. While there have a few local hardware stores close since Home Depot came to town they have closed due to a change in demographics rather than the competition. About the only businesses affected by Home Depot I can think of have been other "mega" stores (Builder's Square and Chase Pitkins come to mind). With the opening of Lowes, from what I've seen so far, unless they get their prices in line with the other stores in the area they are going to have problems. Most people I know are not willing to play their price matching game.
-- Jack Novak Buffalo, NY - USA (Remove "SPAM" from email address to reply)
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Nova wrote:

I'll agree with you and raise you this thought. How many of the stores that close were already on the cusp of failure/were failing anyway and have used (insert mega store name here) as the scape goat?
Here in Da Falls we have an Ace Hardware (Neu's). The owner wanted to sell the lot across the street from his store (highway frontage) to Home Depot but the village wouldn't let him onna 'count of access (it would have been a nightmare/no really).
Home Depot did end up opening a mile(ish) away as did also a Menard's. Neu's doesn't open on Sunday and they keep short hours on Tuesday and Thursday. And guess what, all three places are making money.
I was eventually disappointed that Neu's wasn't able to let a Home Depot open across the street just to watch both stay in business but I'm happy with the proximity/it serves to prove a point.
UA100
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Nova wrote:

One of the things not widely known are the "tax break" deals cut by the biggies before they agree to open a store.
At a minimum, no local taxes as well as they keep all the sales taxes collected for at least one year.
All that just to gain access to the store payroll for income taxes.
Lew
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I have heard of local governments working tax advantage deals with a company but I would be shocked if the store gets to keep the states portion of the sales tax collected. Oddly a Sam's Club moved 1 block about 4 years ago. Its new location is on 2 separate city lines. These two cities share the sales tax collected at the store.
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Leon wrote:

You must live in Pennsylvania.
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Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan < snipped-for-privacy@users.sourceforge.net>
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SW side of Houston, Tx. About a stones throw from Sugar Land, Stafford, and Meadows Place city limits.
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Correct. I believe I have heard this discussion before and that it's illegal to allow a store to collect sales tax and not pay it into the taxing agency. That's allowing the store to tax people and that is illegal.
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Lew Hodgett wrote:

Usually when a tax incentive is given to attract a business the local media broadcast the information. "Bass Pro" just signed a deal with the city to open a store in downtown Buffalo and the amount the city is SUPPOSED to kick is was well publicized. I've heard of no incentives given to Lowes.
The City Of Buffalo and The County of Erie (Buffalo is in Erie County) are in major financial trouble. The Erie County executive just tried to push through a 1% increase in county tax which would have raised the combined state/county sales tax to 9.25%, the highest in the country. This was after blowing, IIRC, a $12 million surplus left the the previous administration and squandering the millions received by the county from the tobacco law suit. The attempt to raise the tax failed to pass this past Friday. The county parks are now closed, county roads are not being plowed, county workers are supposed to be laid off in droves and the department heads is taking the matter to the courts.
I sure hope Lowes wasn't given a tax break. There'll be public hanging.
-- Jack Novak Buffalo, NY - USA (Remove "SPAM" from email address to reply)
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... snip

So your county officials are throwing a hissy fit and punishing the voters? Funny how when tax increases don't pass, it's the services most visible that get cut first, isn't it? Nobody would have noticed any decreases in staff at the county offices such as a few less clerks or some county officials having to share executive assistants or maybe some cuts in landscaping staff or other "non-essential" services. Nope, when the public refuses to go along with a tax increase, they want to show how shortsighted the move was by cutting where people will see it.

+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ The absence of accidents does not mean the presence of safety Army General Richard Cody +--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
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Mark & Juanita wrote:

Yup.
The Country Executive came up with a "Green Budget" where everything was rosy with the added penny in sales tax and a "Red Budget" where all necessary spending was axed without the increase. It was proposed that the County Executive get rid of his chauffeur, county provided personal car and his two assistants but that wasn't in either plan (okay, he did get rid of the chauffeur but put him is a cushy job that pays more than the > $70,000/year he was making) .

The public never got to vote on the matter. It was his own legislature that voted the tax increase down. The Sheriff's Department, District Attorney's Office, County Department. of Social Services, and I forget who else, are all planning on taking the proposed layoffs to the courts.
-- Jack Novak Buffalo, NY - USA (Remove "SPAM" from email address to reply)
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The usual threat around here is "without this new tax, we'll have to make drastic cuts in education and law enforcement".
wrote:

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Our town usually threatens to dump school sports. One town near us actually did and the parents paid up for it, as they should.
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Mark & Juanita wrote:

County they say that they can't afford to keep the prisoners in jail and they start to let them out early, and then blame the voters when they commit more crimes. On recent releasee just got re-arrested for murdering his ex and, I can't recall if the second murder was his mother or hers.
Whichever, you are right, they do go for the most visible and essential programs.
Glen
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Nova wrote:

Around here, car chases get president.
The info posted came from a very reliable source that detailed negotiations involving a Home Depot as well as an OSH store in the area.
I extended the info to include Lowes which I have not confirmed.
These days, they cut all kinds of deals to hustle additional business establishments into the neighborhood these days.
HTH
Lew
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wrote:

Right! <G>
We had hardware, paint, lawn equipment, etc... stores that provided rude crappy service at full retail before the BORGs. They're hurting "because of the BORG".
The well-run stores, like my favorite paint and hardware stores, are still doing well, and still collecting full-retail. The paint store has added product lines, including high-quality woodworking finishes. Our local John Deere dealer was a total dickhead to the typical homeowner before the BORG, now he's struggling.
How many times have we heard a small business owner complain "the economy killed my business"? Well-run business can weather a bump. In fact, they can often take advantage of things like historically low interest rates, and distributor sale prices, to grow, buy out their landlord, etc...
Barry (who's two favorite tool dealers are across the street from Home Depot and warehouse club stores)
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Well, we've had both around here for years now and the locals are still in business. Maybe you should report back when your fears become realized.
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-Mike-
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Mike Marlow wrote:

How large a population base do you have?
I can attest that in small, rural areas even a Wally-World and a branch lumber market (Meade Best Buy) effectively drive the locals out, then raise costs above what the locals in the even smaller communities are at...
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In my immediate area Duane, it's very rural. In the surrounding area (~30miles), Syracuse would be considered a small to medium sized city. It was interesting to watch Wal-Mart come to the local community. There was a faction that was crying doom and gloom. Largely they were led by a local merchant who had held a monopoly in the grocery store space for decades. He had his faction fired up predicting the failure of his store and every other store in the area if Wal-Mart was allowed in. Within days of Wal-Mart opening, his store closed. Really - it was that immediate. Clearly, he wanted the store to close and Wal Mart was only an excuse. He was never competitive in the old days and most people drove 20-30 miles to the bigger regional chains for regular grocery shopping. He was part of a large co-op and his prices were always the highest of the co-op member stores. He could have been more competitive, but didn't want to.
At the time all of the hullabaloo was going on trying to stop Wal-Mart from coming to town, I talked to the owner of the local Ace Hardware. Asked him what his thoughts were on the whole thing. He told me that he went to Ace HQ and asked them what he should do about Wal Mart moving in and if they had anything to offer him to help battle them. To his surprise, they told him that the best thing that could happen to his business is if Wal Mart or Home Depot or whatever moved right in across the street. The fact of the matter is these guys know what impacts their business better than any of us and though it seems logical from one perspective to believe that the big will swallow up the small, it's just not true.
Wal Mart has been in the neighboring town for about 4 years now and only one business closed its doors. That business was the grocery store that I mentioned earlier. Every other pharmacy, hardware store, convenience store, grocery store, you name it, are still here and doing as well as before Wal Mart came to town.
When businesses close it's not because the big guy came to town. They were doing something else wrong for a long time and this was just the straw that broke the proverbial camel's back. I bet if you think back on the opinions of those local merchants you used to know, there was probably more grumbling about price gouging, bad attitudes, etc. way back when, than there were glowing compliments about how much everyone liked shopping there.
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-Mike-
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Mike Marlow wrote:

There's not a city within 400 miles of us that would touch Syracuse...that hardly qualifies as rural in my estimation...It's a point of reference thing. :)
Town here is <20k, no other place within 60 mi >5k (and only one of those). The Wal-Mart in town draws from as much as 80-100 miles away, but in doing so has decimated entirely the facilities in the small communities and the independents in town... :(
The economic draw area is considered by the COC to be about 80 mi radius (mostly west/south, there are a couple of slightly larger places 60 mi N and 80 mi NE). The total population in that area is estimated at about 50k, tops. W/ recent agrinomics I expect that's optimistic.
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