Proposed diesel car penalties - E-Petition

[tim.....]

I think the point of the petition is that London is the thin edge of the wedge and the expectation is that every city will make such a charge in 5-10 years time

tim

[Tim Streater]

Ha ha ha. And you think all others were just queueing up to pay more? What a sap.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

The CC has been around for quite some time. This is merely an extension of it - as low pollution vehicles already get a discount.

[Andy Burns]

According to one of the ULEZ briefings, diesel cars contribute 4% of London's NOx emissions, whereas "non-road mobile machinery" contributes

39% (presumably that's gensets and construction sites?). But if you've already got the cameras in place for congestion charging, the driver is an easier target ...

[Dave Plowman (News)]

You appear to be trying to put words in my mouth.

If you had followed any debates about such things, it was often said increasing fuel prices hit those who live in 'remote' areas more than those who have alternative means of transport.

And the 'shires' tend to have a larger proportion of tory voters than cities.

But if this offends you, tough.

[Tim Streater]

D'ye think then that the non-tory voters in the 'shires' were just queueing up to pay more?

[Dave Plowman (News)]

I have a mental image of a police car chase involving a vehicle towing a generator - trying to get away from any penalty imposed.

Must admit I find those figures hard to believe. Wonder how they worked them out.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Do you think at all?

[Adrian]

The Congestion Charge has been in place for 11 years already, 17 by the time this proposal becomes reality, if it does.

The existing Low Emission Zone has been in place for 6 years already, 12 by the time...

[Andy Burns]

Figure 2

It seems to be a projection for 2020 (doesn't say what current or past figures it's estimated from) vehicles are 27% of the total, diesel cars

16% of that.

[Nightjar]

On 09/08/2014 15:03, Andy Burns wrote: ...

Do the railways still use diesel locomotives in and around London?

[Andy Burns]

"Nightjar

[dennis]

So where is the petition to bring the dates forwards so we can get rid of the cr@p sooner?

[Andy Burns]

Just noticed they have a separate slice of the pie for taxis, I assume they're almost all diesel? So that 4% might be 7-8%

[Capitol]

Last time I went into central London, I thought the taxis were at 80%!

[polygonum]

[The Natural Philosopher]

[polygonum]

[Andrew Gabriel]

I thought the problem was the carbon particles? Diesel cars have simply never got anywhere near as low in practice as the manufacturer's claimed they would be and can demonstrate in ideal test conditions. The government took the manufacturers at their word when encouraging diesel car use, which turned out to be a mistake. In practice, it would require very much more frequent tuning of diesel car engines than happens today. At one point, they got close to requiring annual MoT for diesels from new for the engine tuning, but it didn't quite happen.

[Andy Burns]

From the Boris report

"London is now broadly compliant with EU limit values for Particulate Matter (PM), however, ongoing reductions are needed (especially PM 2.5) to further protect human health. Conversely, like most European cities, many UK cities and indeed even smaller UK towns, London does not currently meet limit values for NO2"

I seem to remember PM10 being the size that was in the headlines a few years ago, but I assume the sizes are "nested"? So maybe it was all towards the smaller end, and they didn't distinguish?

Anyone buying a car knows the fuel consumption, top speed, acceleration, emission figures, etc are unrealistic numbers, achievable only in "lab" conditions.

A lot of current models have stop-start technology, just to scrape into a lower CO2 tax bracket, I've driven two cars with it and soon decided I didn't like it so turned it off on each trip ... it "fought" with the automatic brake hold system on a manual, maybe it works better with an auto?