Who actually owns this 1,000 gallon propane tank? (2023 Update)

From what I've read, the tank was probably *not* bought by the PO.

Of course, I'll also ask for written proof that my current gas supplier owns the tank; but I assume they would have that so I would simply expect to doublecheck the serial number, just in case the tank had been replaced unbeknownst to me and to the propane company.

In North Carolina, we now know that ownership rights to the above-ground tanks need to be established at the county level, by the propane company filing and renewing a form certifying their ownership.

So, I will also check with my California county today, to see if a similar provision exists for my state.

Reply to
Alex Gunderson
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Just to be clear, I have no intention of asking *them* for rental and, I certainly hope they have just as little intention of asking

*me* for the back rent.

In my case, back rent would likely exceed the cost of the tank, so, I would just tell them to take their tank back.

Then I'd put in a new tank, but, at least I'd have clear and free title to that new tank.

Reply to
Alex Gunderson

Why? The propane company seems to be tickled pink to fill it. Since they bought the other company, it is most likely theirs anyway. I don't see any reason to spend the money to bring the new one up to code under the circumstances and I certainly don't see any need to take ownership of the tank (with attendant small but still not trivial legal risks that attach).

Reply to
Kurt Ullman

The key question here is a claim against who? They are talking about the seller not stating who owns the tank, disclosing that it is not theirs, etc at the time of sale. In that case, what they are saying is that you may have a claim against the SELLER. It kind of makes sense. The tank was attached, and usually that which is attached is included in the sale. On the other side, the argument would be that it's common for tanks to be rented, not owned, and you the buyer assumed it was owned, etc. This probably has come up before and there would be court history on it. The other part is that even if you have a claim, it's can you collect? Do you even know where the seller is now?

Reply to
trader4

Also consider that no "rental" is paid because you are buying gas from them. I contracted with a propane company to place a tank on our property solely for the purpose of providing LPG to heat the swimming pool. No rental was ever charged... UNTIL... we severely cut back on the use of the heater and were not constantly filling it. They then instituted what they called a "drayage" charge, charging us $x.xx per month.

"Fired" that company and new one brought in a similar tank with no drayage charge. Eventually got rid of pool and heater but next door neighbor installed a pool and needed propane for it so they moved it next door. He STILL has it and pays only for the gas he uses.

Why would you want to "own" it. If you own it, you're responsible for maintenance. If you stop using the gas, what are you going to do? Plant petunias in it after you cut it in half?

Reply to
Unquestionably Confused

That's exactly what I'm scoping out.

It looks like I may need to: a. Buy the tank & have it delivered empty b. Lay a reinforced concrete pad, with tie-down bolts c. Trench 12" deep for a minimum of 25' from the house d. Lay conduit & metal guide wire e. Add risers for the high & low pressure regulator

The propane company apparently owns the equipment from the riser to the tank (which includes the regulators).

Reply to
Alex Gunderson

But he wasn't buying gas from the company he now believes owns the tank for years after he bought the house. He used a different company.

I contracted with a propane company to place a tank on our

That makes sense.

I guess because he says the current company would charge $15/mth if he were renting it from them. He says a new tank costs $1000.

If you stop using the gas, what are you going to do? Plant

If he's using it for heat and cooking and he knows he's in an area where he's very unlikely to change fuels, then I don't see stopping gas usage as being an issue. How long these tanks last and what you do with them when they have to be disposed of, could be an issue. I would suspect that the gas company has answers to all that. I would not be surprised to find that if you call a gas company and get one of their tanks, as either rental or buying it, that they would take away the old tank, probably for a charge. But saving $1000 every 6 years, I'd say he's still going to come out way ahead.

Reply to
trader4

Here, in CA, they will only fill their tank or your tank, but not someone else's tank.

There is no logo on this tank.

Reply to
Alex Gunderson

Thanks, good attention to detail. Line up the ducks, so he doesn't get quacked over the head with some issue later? Then he might really be ducked up, with a huge tank to duck around with.

. Christ> >> Are you unhappy with the present company?

Reply to
Stormin Mormon

I don't disagree with you.

But it's worth the call to the title company.

Reply to
Alex Gunderson

Nope.

Only for economy.

The propane company charges one rate for people who rent the tank (in addition to the monthly rental fee).

But, they charge a lower rate for those who own their tanks (with the benefit of no rental fee).

I'm assuming (rough calculations) that the tank will pay for itself in a year or two given those dynamics (at least that is what I had calculated years ago).

Reply to
Alex Gunderson

Confirmed.

Reply to
Alex Gunderson

Understood. They could have come at any time to pick it up. They didn't.

Reply to
Alex Gunderson

Good question. I'm actually happy with the existing company.

The only thing that 'may' change is they may charge a rental fee (which, over time, would, at some point, exceed the cost of the tank) and they may charge a higher rate for the propane.

Plus, I can no longer shop around and go to someone else for propane (who may have a lower cost).

Given that there are 1,000 gallons, even a minor

50 cent difference in price could make a large difference (over time) in total ownership cost.
Reply to
Alex Gunderson

It's just painted a cream color. No log whatsoever.

The serial plate has a company of manufacture and a date but no gas company listing.

I'm pretty sure (but not positive) now that the propane company probably owns the tank, unless they didn't fill out the requisite paperwork (but this all would need to be confirmed).

Reply to
Alex Gunderson

That's an interesting question, as I hadn't considered any other option but propane.

I guess, if I stop using gas, my options are:

- For heating: Use a wood burner instead

- For hot water: Use electricity

- For the stove: Use electricity

- For the pool: Don't heat it

- For the BBQ: Use a portable propane tank

- For the dryer: Use electricity

- In which case, I'd add solar panels (for sure!)

But, at this point, I don't think it's reasonable to think I'll invest in switching over all that equipment to alternative fuels.

Reply to
Alex Gunderson

But unless I've gotten it all wrong, you're not paying anything to rent the tank now because no one is billing you for it. So, why worry about it? You said the gas company would charge $15/mth to rent you a tank and you can buy one for $1000. So, why do anything now?

If someday they come to you and claim it's been their tank for the last 7 years and you owe them money, that's when I'd do something. And the something would be to tell them you believed it was your tank, and it's not your problem. If they persist, offer the company some reasonable amount to settle it. There is a statute of limitations on any claims for money owed. Find out what it is. They can't go after you for 15 years worth of bills. More likely, it's about 3 years or 5 years. And then, who really owes the money? You didn't sign a rental contract with them. Presumably the previous owner did. It would seem to me that their claim is against the previous owner, not you. In other words, even if they say, pay up, once they realize the screwed up situation, I'd bet you could settle it for $500. Which is better? Maybe paying $500 someday, or paying $1000 for a tank, plus the cost of laying a pad, securing it, etc maybe $1500 total today?

Reply to
trader4

It's not. There's (almost) no chance (well, it's never zero) that they'll run a pipe way out here for an alternative fuel.

Electricity, I guess, is the other option - but at the cost of electricity in California being something like 50 cents a kwh (top tier), that's not going to work out mathematically (without adding a $50K solar investment to the mix anyway).

Reply to
Alex Gunderson

Then it would seem that when and if another supplier offers a price that justifies switching, that would be the time to incur all the trouble. But you told us the current company was the lowest cost one, no? So, why not just keep doing what you've been doing?

Reply to
trader4

if you don't know c, then you can't assume that. they will probably still own it, even if they collect no rent on it. they would/could have sold it to the then-owner for nothing, but if you have no paperwork on that, then it didn't occur.

Reply to
chaniarts

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