On Fri, 27 Sep 2013 08:22:27 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
Just to be clear, I have no intention of asking *them* for rental
and, I certainly hope they have just as little intention of asking
*me* for the back rent.
In my case, back rent would likely exceed the cost of the tank,
so, I would just tell them to take their tank back.
Then I'd put in a new tank, but, at least I'd have clear and
free title to that new tank.
I think the two negative things that would happen are both
surmountable, so, it wouldn't be catastrophic. :)
One is they could charge rent.
The other is that I couldn't shop around to another supplier.
On the other hand, rent isn't all that bad (many people rent); and,
on the same other hand, the company I chose is generally the cheapest.
On Thursday, September 26, 2013 9:41:04 PM UTC-4, Alex Gunderson wrote:
You are what's wrong with the country today.
All you are doing is trying to weasel your way into a "free" tank because you don't want to pay for tank rental.
Deep down you know who it belongs to, and that you should be paying the rental fee. It's only fair.
Either the previous homeowner or you were supposed to call and transfer that tank account to your name. Obviously the previous homeowner didn't care. Rather than do the upright and honest thing you kept your mouth shut.
You've had that tank rent free for however many years. Time to do the honest thing, own up, and pay the long-overdue bill.
On Mon, 30 Sep 2013 06:24:30 -0700, dennisgauge wrote:
I do understand where you're coming from ... but also answer
Say you bought a house, and you were told by all the professionals
that the driveway on your property was yours. You've been using
said driveway all these years - but - suddenly you find out that
the cement company wasn't paid for that driveway by the previous
owner. Legally, perhaps, the statute of limitations for liens has
passed - but - as you said - deep down - you really know that the
cement company wasn't paid - so, what do you do? Do you pay him?
Similarly, say that the company that put in the pool heater wasn't
paid. Or the one that put in the pool motors. Nowhere in the title
did it say that the pool motors weren't yours. The company that
put in the pool motors had plenty of time to pick up their motors.
But they didn't. And you always thought they were "your" pool
motors. Now, you find out, years later, that the pool motors
weren't fully paid for. What do you do? You, of course, would
give back those motors and the pool heater. Right?
Lastly, say that the $1,000 built-in beer fridge at the BBQ was
used by you for all these years. Again, there is no label on that
fridge; you think it's yours by virtue of you buying the house.
Let's even say you've had a beer company DELIVER beer almost
monthly to "your" beer fridge. Then, again many years later,
your neighbor (who has been there all along and KNOWS where you
live) suddenly tells you that it's HIS beer fridge that is in
your BBQ after all. He even produces a bill of sale that says
he bought that beer fridge many years ago. What do you do?
Do you give your neighbor the beer fridge?
On Monday, September 30, 2013 9:24:30 AM UTC-4, email@example.com wrote:
That's a big assumption and I doubt it's correct. First,
it would be very stupid for the previous owner to not call
up the gas company and tell them to terminate service. The
previous owner could continue to get billed for gas, so
it's very likely they did call them up. Second, if they
didn't, then why didn't the previous gas company just show
up and continue to fill the tank? After they sent a bill or
two to the former owner, something would have happened.?
It looks more to me like something fell through the cracks
at the gas company.
As far as Alex being responsible, I'd say he has some
responsibility now, because the service guy from the gas
company told him that the tank shows up in their database
as belonging to the previous gas company. This is 3 years
later. But what exactly
do you think he should do? Call up his current company
that now has bought out the previous company, so they may
own the tank, and force the issue? A representative
of the company knows about it. What more is he supposed to
do? He's not hiding the tank or lying. For one thing,
all we know is what a service tech told
him. Presumably that service guy will do whatever it is
that he's supposed to do. Maybe he'll hear from the gas
company. If he doesn't, I sure wouldn't go forcing the issue
And his assertion that it could be abandoned property is
a valid issue. It doesn't make Alex a bad person. It's like
if a tree on my property that's healthy falls onto my neighbors
shed and crushes it during a wind storm. I, like many people, would
feel some moral responsibility, since it was my tree.
But the law says otherwise. Unless the tree was diseased, dead,
etc and I knew about it, etc, then I'm not responsible.
The law sets the rules we play by. And if his tank meets the
law for abandoned property, then it's his tank now.
What bill? He had no contract with the previous company.
The former owner did. If they want to collect past rental
fees, they would have to go after the former owner, not Alex.
Alex had no say in negotiating or signing that contract. For
one thing, it's clear from the thread that Alex would prefer
to BUY a tank. If the gas company had presented him with
a bill 3 years ago for rental, he could have said, "I want
to buy it, how much?" And if he couldn't come to terms with
that company, he could have told them, he's switching to
another company, etc. You can't enforce a contract where no
contract ever existed.
On Mon, 30 Sep 2013 08:50:05 -0700, firstname.lastname@example.org wrote:
Thanks for understanding.
The rules for establishing ownership should be clear, especially
for something as common as an above-ground propane tank.
I do have some more information. The company that made the tank is
Roy E. Hanson Jr. Mfg, 213-747-7514. They sent me an email stating
that the serial number matches a tank sold to a THIRD propane
I called that third entity, and they're still in business (they
said they've been in business for 85 years in this area), and they
never owned that tank.
Hmmm... makes no sense.
To confirm, the manufacturer told me I should plug in the national
registry number into a database at http://www.nationalboard.org
Apparently, all propane tanks have a six-digit national board number
in addition to the serial number of any number of digits.
The manufacturer said California doesn't require this number, but
many other states do, so, they put it on all propane tanks they
The only problem is I can't find the national board lookup
mechanism, and nobody answers their phone in Columbus Ohio:
So, I'm working the details as we speak.
On Mon, 30 Sep 2013 08:50:05 -0700, email@example.com wrote:
And, in this case, the tank was sold by the original
manufacturer to a THIRD propane company!
I called that third propane company, who has been in
business in the area for 85 years. They did NOT ever
service my residence!
Of course, they still could have originally owned the
tank and sold it to someone but they have no record of
owning that tank.
I finally got a human at the https://www.nationalboard.org
registry public affairs department:
National Board Public Affairs Phone: 614.431.3204
They told me there is no way I can search for the datasheet
on that tank without establishing a relationship with them,
but, they asked me for my national registry code plus the
serial number and they said they'd let me know what information
is on the registration for original and subsequent owners
for that specific tank (plus I can buy the datasheet).
However, they said only the original owner is likely to
be on the tank datasheet, unless someone updated their
database voluntarily after the fact.
On Monday, September 30, 2013 3:30:11 PM UTC-4, Alex Gunderson wrote:
Keep calling enough and eventually something is sure to
happen. Why you you're not happy with a tank that has
been free for 3 years and won't just let a sleeping dog lie is
beyond me and I think everyone else here.
I'm sure you've run the numbers but don't assume the numbers are the
same for everyone. Even if the rental agreements are identical
(highly doubtful) people will have different priorities for their cash
or other intangibles. Personally, I don't want to own a tank but
would be convinced if the numbers came out in my favor big-time.
I wouldn't even *think* of owning the tank with the numbers
being that the tank "could" pay for itself in just a couple
That it might spontaneously ignite is not a worry.
More to the point of home repair, the regulators (of which I have
3 low pressure and 1 high pressure) seem to need replacing, by
law? about every 12 years (if you believe Amerigas) or every
15 to 25 years (if you believe the propane association).
Amerigas: 12 years:
Propane Association: 15 to 25 years:
The cost to replace 1 regulator is $300 if Amerigas does it,
and about $73.22 if we do it ourselves.
On Tue, 1 Oct 2013 00:29:29 +0000 (UTC), Alex Gunderson
In my other house (currently rented and under contract), the 250gal
propane tank is rented. I think they wanted something like $500
($1500 if buried) for it, IIRC. The rental is $45/year. There was no
way I'd buy it.
...and if I change my mind, I want to get rid of it without issue.
When we sold the house there was a question about the tank. Don't
want it (no fireplace and no gas stove), fine. Take it out.
Does he have to shoot the tank, and then
shovel some dirt on the tank?
I've heard that in NYS, if the tank has a
company logo, that other companies will
refuse to fill it.
I advise you to very gently sand off any
rust. Prime with grey primer, then paint
the tank with white enamel paint, and
don't say anything to anyone about it,
like K says.
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
On 9/26/2013 8:23 PM, firstname.lastname@example.org wrote:
On 9/26/2013 7:23 PM, email@example.com wrote:
Also consider that no "rental" is paid because you are buying gas from
them. I contracted with a propane company to place a tank on our
property solely for the purpose of providing LPG to heat the swimming
pool. No rental was ever charged... UNTIL... we severely cut back on
the use of the heater and were not constantly filling it. They then
instituted what they called a "drayage" charge, charging us $x.xx per month.
"Fired" that company and new one brought in a similar tank with no
drayage charge. Eventually got rid of pool and heater but next door
neighbor installed a pool and needed propane for it so they moved it
next door. He STILL has it and pays only for the gas he uses.
Why would you want to "own" it. If you own it, you're responsible for
maintenance. If you stop using the gas, what are you going to do? Plant
petunias in it after you cut it in half?
On Friday, September 27, 2013 9:13:49 AM UTC-4, Unquestionably Confused wrote:
But he wasn't buying gas from the company he now believes
owns the tank for years after he bought the house. He used
a different company.
I contracted with a propane company to place a tank on our
That makes sense.
I guess because he says the current company would charge $15/mth
if he were renting it from them. He says a new tank costs $1000.
If you stop using the gas, what are you going to do? Plant
If he's using it for heat and cooking and he knows he's in
an area where he's very unlikely to change fuels, then I
don't see stopping gas usage as being an issue.
How long these
tanks last and what you do with them when they have to
be disposed of, could be an issue. I would
suspect that the gas company has answers to all that.
I would not be surprised to find that if you call a gas
company and get one of their tanks, as either rental or
buying it, that they would take away the old tank, probably
for a charge. But saving $1000 every 6 years, I'd say
he's still going to come out way ahead.
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