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On 3/31/2014 8:37 AM, Bob_Villa wrote:

None of which may be of any _real_ value, but it doesn't really make any difference, either...just delete anything you don't want (altho w/ _minimum_ enry-level systems supporting 1000 GB drives or larger one is unlikely to ever care that a few MB are taken up. Only real issue ime may be some things in Startup folder you'll want to remove but at least I've seen nothing that would make me refuse to buy from a given vendor for that reason for the advantage of the bundled deal pricing...
This machine is roughly same age as OP's (a Dell) that bought when went out on own consulting back in '99 -- it was decently-middle-to-upper-half at the time. I just added 2GB memory last week to bring it to 4 total and it made a lot of difference w/ the new release of Matlab The Mathworks offered. I've since retired from the consulting gig so there's no incentive/justification for upgrading otherwise so I don't see anything at all against just getting the new drive and perhaps another GB of memory and goin' on. This also is XP and I don't give a hoot about the "end of service life"--it's stable-enough there's no need to change OS.
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On Mon, 31 Mar 2014 09:45:51 -0400, "Mayayana"

to a crawl - leaky caps. Take a good look at all the electrolytic caps on the motherboard. They all have score marks in the end. If the end is convex instead of flat or slightly concave, the cap has failed. The K marked caps are generally less likely to fail than the X marked ones, for some reason.
You CAN replace the caps with new Low ESR caps to salvage an otherwise good board but at $2 and change a piece for the caps,I often question if it is worth while. Generally 1000 and 1500 mfd caps in 10 and 16 volt DC ratings - minimum 85C temp rating. Using 16 and 25 volt caps extends the life if you have the physical space on the board.
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On Monday, March 31, 2014 2:24:28 PM UTC-4, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

How does a bad cap slow it to a crawl? The caps are there to smoooth out the power, no? I can see a bad cap causing it to freeze, or not boot, but how does it wind up slowing it down?
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On Mon, 31 Mar 2014 09:59:19 -0400, "Mayayana"

Virtual XP IS a VM. It comes standard on Win7 Pro, and can be downloaded for free from Microsoft if you need it on a "lesser" OS.
Personally, I ALWAYS buy Pro, so it's not an issue for me (I need the network capability of Pro - lesser OS cannot join a domain)

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On Mon, 31 Mar 2014 13:38:36 -0400, Stormin Mormon

resurrect a little Toshibba Portege R200.
You DO need to make sure you are only downloading SP3 and not 1001 other programs the download sites try to stuff in on you.
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You also have to make sure SP2 is installed.
Greg
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snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca writes:

Can you clarify how a leaky cap will "slow them to a crawl"?
If the PLL controlling the clock signal doesn't lock at the target frequency, the processor will never leave reset. I suppose that qualifies as "slow", for some value of "slow".
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snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca writes:

A VM (Virtual Machine) is a "container" that appears to software as if it were running on bare-metal. The "container" usually runs under an hypervisor (or an existing OS that has hypervisor functionality). Common hypervisors include VMWare and Xen (Citrix), and both Windows and Linux have hypervisor functionality using HyperV and KVM (kernel Virtual machine) respectively.
All modern processors (Intel, PowerPC, ARM, Itanium, PARISC, et alia) have hardware support for virtualization to make virtualization significantly more efficient than if the processor didn't have the extra support (often implemented via an additional privilege level, more privileged than the the operating systems being virtualized (SVM on AMD, VT-X on Intel, Exception Level 2 on ARMv8)).
Any x86 operating system can be run in a x86 Virtual Machine (VM) including MsDOS, OS/2, Linux, Windows XP, Windows 7, Windows 8, etc.

Some of us build very large, very fast, very expensive computers for a living. Some of us even write hypervisors for a living.
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| > But XP is zippy on old hardware, and does just fine with 256 | > MB RAM for most uses.) | | Bullshit. |
Interesting reasoning. :)
| The biggest mistake people make is to view a computer as if it is a | major appliance. Sure, ovens and fridges don't change much over time, | so they'll still perform their basic functions just fine even when | newer models are on the market. But computers are dynamic devices. The | software and peripherals that run on/with them are constantly | changing. They gradually lose efficiency, and eventually lose | compatibility. At some point, they won't be good for much anymore.
In practice that's often true, and in Jerry's case it might be easiest to just buy a new machine, especially considering how cheap they are now. But if you know how to re-install the system and manage your software -- or if you have a friend who can help -- then there's no reason to have the problems you describe. Software doesn't "lose efficiency", and most people rarely if ever change their software. But if you don't manage startup programs, if you allow browser toolbars to be installed, etc then the system will get bogged down.
I was working on a friend's PC just yesterday. He had wanted to download an audio file. The only option was iTunes. In order to download he had to install the iTunes software. For one audio file he ended up with *4* nonsense Apple programs running at startup. Most people don't understand about such things. Even if the Apple installer provided a choice about installing their junk (which I doubt) my friend would have just gone along with the suggested default install, as most people do. That's the kind of thing that causes what appears to you to be ageing and "lost efficiency".
So there might be a question as to whether it's feasible for Jerry to "revivify" his old PC. But it probably is a realistic option. I stress this point because I think it's a shame that people waste so much money out of ignorance. I've got a number of PCs that I hold onto in case someone needs one. I get them from people who think the way you do: Their system gets mucked up, they think it must be dying of old age, they go and buy another PC, then they give the old one to me for parts. I do a factory restore in 30 minutes (which most PCs can do) and I've got a PC as fresh as the day it was bought.... in most cases still far more powerful than the person in question actually needs.
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On Monday, March 31, 2014 4:07:30 PM UTC-4, Mayayana wrote:

Really? People don't change software? Not in my experience. Who for example is still using the same version of a web browser from 12 years ago? And for what? A browser from back them would be incompatible with most websites today. Try to open a new document with Adobe Reader that's 12 years old, play a newly created video with a 12 year old video player app, etc. It's rarely going to work. Software is constantly evolving. You can almost always open an old file with the new app, but not vice versa.
But if you don't manage startup

Perfect example of why new software gets installed all the time.
For one audio file

That can certainly contribute to decreased performance, sure. But it still doesn't mean that a 12 year old XP machine is up to what most people typically want or find acceptable today for their PC. And if he wants to stick with XP, he's going to find less and less software that runs on it. If he uses Windows Explorer, IDK when the last version was that runs on XP. It's sure not the last couple versions, so he can expect increasing compatibility trouble there. I'm sure someone will say he can use some other browser, which is true, but it's an example of the kind of frustration,work arounds etc that are going to become more common with an EOL OS.
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Trader4ickt responded thusly:
Window Explorer is the file/folder manager, Internet Explorer is a browser! *L*
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wrote:

better to stick with a Dos6 or Windows 3.1 OS on a 386SX
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On Mon, 31 Mar 2014 19:57:54 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote:

to a crawl with bad caps, that came right back to life when I replaced the caps. It's not just the processor clock - it's the IO from the hard drive, the refresh rate on the RAM, and the output to the video that can all slow down. The processor misses clock cycles if the voltage goes off spec too, from what I've been told.
Some bad caps will also make the computer not boot. Or make the computer crash when it gets warm.
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snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

It all depends which part of the logic the cap is located. Until you see some thing caused by any component going bad you wouldn't believe things happening in the field(real world). Bad cap even scres up critical rise and fall time of a clock pulse. My job as a Sr. systems support specialist was looking at this sort of things with multi channel logic analyzer set up to catch things when it happens. Some things glitch once in a blue moon but we know it is happening and we have to catch it to generate engineering mod. with design engineers.
Some problems originates from poor quality control. Bad batch of chips or parts will incur wasted expenses. Purchasing agent at logistics has big responsibility in this regard. Timing I was dealing with was nano seconds or fraction of it. Ordinary O'scope is unable to display it. Storage scope captured signals had to be displayed in sort of scaled slow motion to analyze it. x86 PC was used as a diagnostic tool to trouble-shoot large scale multi layer logic board down to component level. Any one heard of checking logic circuits by serial bit shifting method?
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On Tuesday, April 1, 2014 1:00:21 PM UTC-4, Tony Hwang wrote:

I agree with the above analysis. But we're talking about a failing leaky electrolytic cap causing the system speed to slow down. AFAIK, the uses for electrolytic caps in a PC are either in the power supply or on the MB, I/O boards, etc where power enters the board to serve as a source to smooth voltage variations, ie supply current to meet transient switching needs. At least for anything to do with logic. They would also be used on say an audio or video card for the analog section. But in the case of the digital logic portion, I can see how a bad cap could easily make the system lock up, give a blue screen of death, etc. But like others here, I'm having a hard time understanding a mechanism whereby it just slows it down. I suppose maybe a failing cap on some I/O board or something could cause that to behave erratically, causing the same interrupt signal being tripped constantly, which the CPU then has to respond to. That might explain it I guess.
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On Tuesday, April 1, 2014 12:23:57 PM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:

It sounds like you are straining yourself...where your muscles are weak! *L*
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trader_4 wrote:

Slowing things down can mean increased error rate which require retries. If cap is leaky(not total failure yet), it can sag voltage rail potential. You're talking in terms of PC in general? Like BSOD? There was such a logic board with CML logic which used to draw couple hundred Watts of power, in this case little leaky cap is not detrimental for system failure but it can cause all kinda funnies. In a situation like this years of actual field experience combined with superior basic knowledge is the only way to tacckle it. Engineers with green horns don't even have a faintest clue encountering this kinda issues when customer(big corporations, government, military, etc.) is breathing down on his back asking when system will be up. Literally I saw a young kid breaking down in tears in total loss. Remembering I was once like that I always tried to be nice to them giving every thing to their credit. But there were types who tried to live their lives only with BIG mouth. I hated those kind. Usually big liars to cover their a**. This type is the worst one to bail out. Because of those stupid lies. I am glad I am retired now. I have a 100% track record. I never failed to solve a problem in the field(all over the world) I encountered for almost 40 years.
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Hi Oren,
Here's some information. I did have 53 updates to download and install! Still 3 to go. Thank you
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a. Processor clock speed is measured at computer start-up, and on laptops may be impacted by power option settings. b. Data may be transferred on the bus at one, two, or four times the Bus Clock rate. c. Memory slot contents may not add up to Installed Memory if some memory is not recognized by Windows. d. Memory slot contents is reported by the motherboard BIOS. Contact system vendor if slot contents are wrong. e. This may be the manufacturer's factory installed product key rather than yours. You can change it to your product key using the procedure at http://www.belarc.com/msproductkeys.html . f. The full product key is not stored on this computer. However, the characters shown uniquely identify your product key. g. You can have Windows save the full product key using the procedure at http://www.belarc.com/msproductkeys.html .
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wrote:

I was not familiar with Microcenter until you posted it here. There is one about 20 miles from me. This may be the ticket.
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trader_4 wrote:

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en- us/library/windows/desktop/aa366778%28v=vs.85%29.aspx
Unless it is a 32bit x86 version.
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