Load center replacement

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wrote:

Ols style meaning 6 or 8 circuit 60 amp service. A 12 circuit or better 100 amo panel is insurable just about anywhere in North America, unless it is in a vdery large house.

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On 11/8/2011 12:24 PM, bob haller wrote:

https://www.google.com/webhp?hl=en&tab=gw#sclient=psy-ab&hl=en&site=webhp&source=hp &q=knob+and+tube+wiring+safety+hazards&pbx=1&oq=knob+and+tube+wiring+safety&aq=1v &aqi=g1g-v1&aql=&gs_sm=c&gs_upl=0l0l1l8120l0l0l0l0l0l0l0l0ll0l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb &fp•7e6826046888e5&biw34&bih`1
Looking at the first 10: K&T "is not inherently dangerous".
Some said insulation over K&T was a fire hazard - with no basis for the statement. Based on reality - California and Washington did not find a single fire that was attributed to insulation over K&T. Both allow insulation over K&T. (They are not the only ones.)
A PA state agency insulates over K&T.
And there is the head electrical inspector for Minneapolis who said no record of hazard was found in the large number of K&T installations that had insulation added around them.
Still missing - any reason to believe insulating over K&T is a problem based on the record of the huge number of houses that have been insulated.
In this thread you have got wrong: Clare needed to convert to breakers because of homeowners insurance. you can't get insurance for fuses you can never get insurance for K&T you can never get insurance for K&T from State Farm there is a "great chance of a loss" (K&T is intrinsically unsafe) there are no boxes with K&T if you open a wall with K&T it is "mandatory to upgrade" homes with K&T can't be insulated
--
bud--



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wrote:

How about 3 1/2 hours a day in a general insurance brokerage??? If you have cast iron waste pipes, galvanized water pipes, OR K&T wiring up here you WILL have serious problems getting insurance. Same with a 60 amp service (which was a BIG service for most houses wit K&T wiring.)
If you have aluminum wiring you need an electrical inspection and certificate before they will insure the house. Select electricians are authourized to provide the inspections.
Just because no "record of hazard" was found by a local electrical inspector does not mean an insurance company, or even MANY insurance companies, will not have a problem with insulation around K&T wiring - or even that many insulation installers' insurance companies may not have a problem with the insulation contractors installing insulation around them. Like I said before - insurance companies are NOT in the risk business.
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Insurers keep a secret history of your home A huge database not only tracks claims, it also looks for risks -- which could cause dropped coverage and other nightmares for homeowners.
advertisement Article Tools E-mail to a friendTools IndexPrint-friendly versionSite MapArticle IndexDiscuss in a Message BoardDigg This By Liz Pulliam Weston You probably know that it's not a good idea to make too many claims on your homeowners insurance policy, because your insurer could drop you.
What you might not know is that a claim could make selling your home more difficult down the road. What's more, you could find your home's value damaged or a sale jeopardized even if a previous owner, and not you, made a claim.
Insurers increasingly are using a huge industry database, called the Comprehensive Loss Underwriting Exchange, or CLUE, to drop or deny coverage based on a home's history of claims or damage reports.
Insurance companies are terrified of rising losses from water and mold damage. So a single report of water-related problems may be enough for insurers to shun your home.
Jan and Kevin Garder of Bremerton, Wash., discovered this the hard way. The Garders thought they were doing the right thing when they told their insurance company, State Farm, about some minor water damage caused by a rainstorm last year.
Consumers held hostage The couple, who say they had been with their insurer for 30 years without filing a claim, ultimately decided not to file one this time, either.
That didn't stop State Farm from dropping them as customers, they say. Not only that, but they say State Farm also shared the damage information with the CLUE database. When the Garders applied for coverage elsewhere, the other insurers cited State Farm's damage report as the reason they wouldn't write a policy, Jan Garder said.
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http://www.pct.edu/wtc/docs/articles/KnobTube_Report_WTC.pdf
this PDF details as age of homes increase so does fire rate, and has info on 3 home fire traced back to K&T encapsulated in insulation....
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On 11/8/2011 8:36 PM, bob haller wrote:

Three fires out of 149 in what the survey source says was not a valid "probability sample". The report says "knob and tube wiring only played a small role in the incidents of fire in this study".
What reason is there to believe that K&T is significantly more hazardous than other wiring methods? Still missing.
Of course you don't read and understand what you post. This is the same report I have referred to several times already. It says "properly installed and unaltered K&T wiring is not an inherent fire hazard." And this is the agency that insulates over K&T - in your state.
In this thread you have got wrong: Clare needed to convert to breakers because of homeowners insurance. you can't get insurance for fuses you can never get insurance for K&T you can never get insurance for K&T from State Farm there is a "great chance of a loss" (K&T is intrinsically unsafe) there are no boxes with K&T if you open a wall with K&T it is "mandatory to upgrade" homes with K&T can't be insulated
--
bud--


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wrote:

Bud, The national electrical and building codes IN THE USA do NOT allow insulation over/arounf K&T.
Insurance underwriters do not allow (in most cases) houses with K&T wiring.
An unmolested K&T wiring system, even if surrounded by insulation, would, in all probability, not cause a fire dsnger - but UNMOLESTED K&T systems are EXCEDINGLY rare - and any poorly made modifications, dangerous enough when in open air, and open to be found and repaired if a problem develops, are hidden in (often flammable) insulation, where if a problem develops the first sign is smoke.
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On Wed, 09 Nov 2011 20:09:43 -0500, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

Got my "service layout" from WNH this afternoon. Need to put in a new meter base and I'm limitted to 125 amps with the existing underground service. About $1700 to WNH plus trenching to get it up to 200 amps.
If I stick with 100 to 125, all it will cost me is about $73 for the disconnect/reconnect, and the new meter base over and above the panel replacement, and the new meter box installation will allow me to raise the power cable entry to the panel by the required 4". Panel replacement by licenced electrician, including Seimens panel (the electrician's favourite - don't know why) is $750 so it will likely be scheduled soon.
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On Nov 9, 10:08 pm, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

check price for a 200 amp panel with smaller main breaker...... it may not be much more and leaves room for expansion
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wrote:

I can buy a 100 amp panel with 42 breakers. Any reason I would poeeibly want more than that in a house that measures 22X30 feet???????
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On 11/10/2011 5:38 PM, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

You said previously it is a small house and 100A is plenty. It is another hallerb fetish.
--
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if a upgrade of panel capacity was 75 bucks would it be worth it? a future buyer might want a electric kiln in the basement or other power hungry thing like a shop and buy just on the basis of ease of upgrading for their special use..
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Then he can spend the $75. Compared to the kiln or shop, the $75 is trivial.
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On Nov 11, 2:08 pm, " snipped-for-privacy@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz"

no you missed my point, the new main panel 200 amp may only cost 75 bucks than a 100 amp panel. when i last priced panels the difference was amazingly small......... when done as part of a main panel replacement.....
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...let the next guy do it.
BTW, an ellipsis has only three dots (some allow four if it's a complete sentence).
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wrote:

And the upgrade to the service - before the panel - is $1700 plus trenching costs (including lifting and relaying the brick driveway)
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wrote:

There is really no other way to do the job,here in Waterloo. The service layout REQUIRES replacement of the meter base, and installing anything less than the 200 amp rated cable for 2 feet would not make any sense at all.(if it would even be allowed)

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wrote:

If the upgrade was $75 it would be a no-brainer - but it's not - so it's not. There is NO downside to having a bigger service than required.
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On Nov 9, 8:09 pm, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

no insurance company will want to insure a home that violates the NEC.........
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On 11/9/2011 10:16 PM, bob haller wrote:

From one of your links - California did not find "a single fire" from insulated K&T.
California allows insulating over K&T (as do many other jurisdictions.)
It is real unlikely that California allows insurance companies to not insure insulated K&T when the state found no problem.
In this thread you have got wrong: Clare needed to convert to breakers because of homeowners insurance. you can't get insurance for fuses you can never get insurance for K&T you can never get insurance for K&T from State Farm there is a "great chance of a loss" (K&T is intrinsically unsafe) there are no boxes with K&T if you open a wall with K&T it is "mandatory to upgrade" homes with K&T can't be insulated "posts here from insurance workers statements about K&T being uninsurable"
Maybe your Ouija board needs to be repaired.
--
bud--

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