Replacement of old MAIN all-fuse panel with a circut breaker panel

I have installed CB sub-panels many a times with no problem because I can disconnect the live wires at the main panel. In the old house I am fixing, I need to replace the all-fuse MAIN panel with a new CB panel. Do I need to contact the power company to disconnect the juice, or is there another way of doing it? I do not want to mess with the 240 volt supply because it may hurt a bit (i.e., kill me). BTW: how do certified electricians go about disconnecting the live wires before doing a similar job? Thanks

Reply to
Hat
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You contract the power company to come and remove the electric meter. That disconnects the entire house so you better have battery operated tool to do your job. THe power company may let you reinstall the meter if you act competent enough to do it without killing yourself. It just pulls straight out after you remove the metal band that holds the meter in place and which has a metal tag/seal holding it in place so you cannot bypass the meter without them knowing the seal was broken.

Reply to
hrhofmann

Each power company has it's own rules. If you don't have a permit, a common dodge is to say you are replacing a defective main breaker and you need to cut the seal. and pull the meter. They may just say OK and come seal it later. Other POCOs want to read the meter before you cut the seal and they may want to take it with them. It really depend a lot on their local fraud experience. It is a lot better to just pull the permit and have it inspected if your building department will let you do it yourself. Then you will have a record for your insurance company and selling the house might go easier down the road.

Worst case, cut the seal, pull the meter, do the work and put the meter back in. Call them and say some vandal cut your meter seal. I doubt they would buy that.

Reply to
gfretwell

I guess not too many vandals vandalize seals.

Once, when I didn't get around to paying my bill, my power was disconnected. I rushed out and paid the bill, but then I wondered when they would actually reconnect me. So there must have been a seal that I cut; and I pulled out the meter, removed the plastic prong covers, and put back the meter. And then made dinner. The guy came an hour later and I told him someone else had come already. Later I realized -- at least I think so -- that he was the only one doing my area, and he knew no one else had come. But he hadn't said anything. I suppose to himself he just smiled, or cursed me for being a liar. Of course he probably knew I'd been disconnected for failure to pay, and he had no reason to think I'd been messing with the breaker box, but would he have cared if he'd thought that?

Reply to
mm

pop the seal, remove the meter from the can, then when you get it all back together, put the meter back in, and hang the broken seal on it. Chances are, they never come out to read the meter anyway, and if they do, they'll just put a new seal on it.

Reply to
Steve Barker

Or, if you want to be real radical, you could call the power company and ask them how they prefer to handle it. They want to make it happen. They don't want to block these updates. They may just tell you to cut the seal, and remove the meter as you need.

When I did it, they removed the seal. I did the work, got it inspected, and they came back, installed new wires to the new head, removed the old wires, and connected up the meter and seal.

IIRC, I disconnected the old bex from the wall, pulled it out of the way, installed the new head, conduit, meter box, wires to the head, and breaker box. I wired jumpers from the old box mains to the new box. Then I transfered wires for each circuit from the old box to the new when I had the time. Power was down for a minimal time. When they installed the new power, I removed the jumpers and the old box.

Reply to
Bob F

As others have said, you can pull the meter, if the particular utility company you're dealing with doesn't have a lock on it. This will work provided you are not going to increase the amperage of the current service. If your new main is going to be of higher amperage then what's existing, you'll probably have to replace the meter box and standpipe as well. In some areas, I suppose, the utility company kills power for you. In NY, where I am, the electricians cut and rebug the service connections.

Reply to
RBM

I had my main breaker crap out on me. I cut the seal, pulled the meter, replaced the main, and then plugged the meter back in. I called the poco aftewards and told them why I had to do it. They sent a guy out to put a new seal on. No prob. The type of neighborhood your old house is in may affect your results though.

Reply to
jamesgangnc

"Disconnecting the juice" is accomplished, as others have said, by simply unplugging the meter.

Whether you have to contact the power company, get a permit, have the work done by a licensed electriction, make sure the work is inspected, submit drawings and plans to the appropriate city office, or use only UL-approved devices is a matter determined by your local rules.

In my case, a call to the power company was all that was required. They came out within six hours (their standard), cut the seal, and read the meter. When my work was completed, another call and they returned to re-seal the meter (within twelve hours).

Hint: Label all the wires with numbered tags, noting the amperage of the existing fuse serving the wires. Take several digital pictures. Do not have the celebratory beer for a job well done until after the final "smoke test."

Reply to
HeyBub

I certinally hope your replacing not just the main panel but also the main service line and meter can. upgrade to 200 amps too this future proofs your install......

pick a manel panel thats locally popular, for easy access to replacement breakers.

and dont forget proper grounding

Reply to
hallerb

If you are asking this question, then I can only presume that you should not be doing the work. Hire a qualified electrician to "side job" it for you.

Some utility companies will do one free dis/reconnect without questions, or a permit.

If you must do the work yourself there are insulated, mechanical terminals that may be used to facilitate the easy dis/reconnection of the pre-meter conductors. They are manufactured by Polaris. If you have not done a live splice before, forget about it. Is your life worth a shortcut?

They make a cheaper product than this one, but this gives the general idea:

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Again, if you don't know what you are doing and need someone to hold your hand, don't do this. After the work is complete you may leave them on or have the utility company come out and "properly" connect the service. That's your call.

As for removing the meter and working on the post meter wiring, some of the seals may be cut in a fashion that will allow repeated removal and installation of the seal, thus providing the same ability for the meter itself. Do the work and play dumb if questioned. Though, as someone else suggested, it would be a good idea to upgrade your meter main to a larger service, but this makes me ask, "does the meter not have a disconnect?"

I have not been doing a thorough read of this topic and might have missed some information that you have presented. So, forgive me if I am a bit presumptuous or seem to be speaking without all of the facts.

Number One: Be safe and do it right. It would suck to survive the install only to die in a fire.

Reply to
MIB

You clearly don't know what you are talking about. Home service meters do not have a disconnect. Seals are not "reusable". You are presumptuous to advice the OP he's not capable of handling this task and then go one to give misinformed information.

Reply to
jamesgangnc

If you are installing the same amperage panel, the old wires may not be long enough. Replacing the wires from a meter socket with a hot supply side is hazardous, particularly in the old sockets that did not shield the meter jaws. The hazard is not only electrocution, but the high currents that you can get if there is an inadvertent short - somewhere like 5,000-10,000 amps with not a lot of protection from the utility. Tools can vaporize.

If doing the same amp rating and the wires are long enough, pulling the meter should be OK. Else, an electrician might cut the service wires at the utility connection and reconnect them, or have the utility cut and reconnect. The way it is done varies with location.

There are a number of requirements for service panels that you do not have with subpanels.

Reply to
bud--

Is it your old house ? If yes then if you can safely do the work (which isn't recommended because you would have to kill the power by undoing or cutting the feeder cables near the service entry head to make even the meter socket enclosure totally safe to work in) go nuts... If you are NOT the homeowner and you are doing work on this "old house" for its owner, then you can't do that type of project for them without an electrical license...

Replacing an electrical panel is not "handyman work"...

Upgrading an old fuse panel to a new circuit breaker panel is not as easy as it seems and might require replacement of the main feeder wiring all the way up to the service drop from the utility pole where you make the connections to the wires for the meter socket at the service head... This could include installation of a new metering socket if the old service was not 200 amps as well as having the power company having to install larger gauge drop wires to feed your property...

But if you think its simple, go nuts... Its only someone's home that will burn down if you don't do every aspect of the project correctly...

~~ Evan

Reply to
Evan

If he is replacing "like with like" there is no issue with the service drop or any cabling. IF he is capable of removing the main fuse holder and taping up the ends of the wire, it IS possible to change the panel with it live. I've done it severalt times - but you DO need to bw carefull, and you DO need to know how to work safely with live circuits. You DO need to have a lot of respect for electrons!.

When the cables are disconnected and taped, remove the old panel - then feen the taped cables into the new panel and connect to the main breaker - and securely fasten the panel to the service board. Then re-enter all the branch circuits.

It IS safer to have the meter pulled and work on it "dead" if at all possible. I have seen meter seals popped off and re-installed ( if they are the plastic type they often break on their own from weathering) and some utilities use a "generic" seal, while others use "personalized" seals with their name on them so they can easily identify tampering.

Reply to
clare

I have pulled meters its no biggie and far safer than working live!!!

Duquesne light didnt care as long as I informed them the next day.

A fuse broke off in its holder the glass seperated from the base.

around here they no longer look at meters to read them just drive up the street

Reply to
hallerb

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I think the thing you're calling a "Meter Main" is actually an on-off switch for the winch used to deploy and retrieve shrimp nets on medium sized shrimp boats.

Reply to
HeyBub

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D I get the idea now. This is not for the faint of heart. I'll hire a professional to do the job. Thanks very much.

Reply to
Hat

-snip-

This might be the most intelligent post in this thread. Chances are you can find something else to do while a pro pops this out.

You can also sleep better nights knowing your insurance company isn't going to give you a hard time if the worst case happens.

Jim

Reply to
Jim Elbrecht

Your choice, but the job's really not that hard.

It's like changing a tire:

  1. Jack up the car (remove power)
  2. Remove old tire (scrap existing distribution facility)
  3. Install new tire (apply new distribution panel)
  4. Lower jack (reapply power)

If you do things in the common sense order, the result will be as expected. If you scramble the sequence, such as removing the tire before you jack up the car, you can expect damage, death, and no free flashlight.

Reply to
HeyBub

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