Clover Control

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brooklyn1 wrote:

So do horses and cattle but I doubt they have any of those.
D
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WOW! and I planted one acre of clover next to the bees home. MAN! I did not know that clover was that horrendous that it should be eradicated from the planet. MAN! I am stupid! (Go ahead I can take it).
--
Enjoy Life... Dan

Garden in Zone 5 South East Michigan.
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Our love of tidy but not very diverse yards is imprinted on us by our culture. The immaculate lawn, under siege from ecological writers everywhere, developed in the mild and evenly moist climate of Great Britain. Its implications are deeply woven into our psyche. A lawn in preindustrial times trumpeted to all that the owner possessed enough wealth to use some land for sheer ornament, instead of planting all of it to food crops.
And close-mowed grass proclaimed affluence, too: a herd of sheep large enough to crop the lawn uniformly short. These indicators of status whisper to us down the centuries. By consciously recognizing the influence of this history, we can free ourselves of it and let go of the reflexive impulse to roll sod over the entire landscape.
Spray and split, and leave your neighbors holding the bag. Lacks a little something in integrity, but shows damn fine survival skills.
Now, would I prefer to have an inbred cretin with an aversion to herbicides living next to me, or someone who is prepared to turn their home into a Superfund site in order to get rid of clover, hmmmm. As luck would have it, Bill who putters is already surrounded by superfund sites, 3 or 4 in a radius of 10 miles, maybe 2 dozen within a radius of 50 miles, so you can imagine his reaction to your proposal.
Anyway, as luck would have it, the herbicide seems to be most dangerous to broadleaf plants, and legumes, those plants so important in making topsoil, that have been wiped out by commercial farming. But the planet isn't your problem, is it? Now your problem is that eIther you can go squat, and slice the offending clover off at its base with a knife, or you can hang around after you've done your dastardly deed, and reseed the area that was poisoned, because the lawn won't spread quickly enough to fill in the bare spots by itself. That of course means that that you will need to be there to water the nascent lawn patch, and thereby putting an ugly hole in you vacation schedule.
Or, you could learn to love clover, topsoil, and your planet.
Good luck.
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
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Frank McElrath wrote:

Fertilize lightly with a high-nitrogen fertilizer with no phosphorus. Keep the grass mowed, and don't water it too much. (clover likes moist, low-nitrogen soil with lots of phosphorus.) The grass should overtake the clover in the hot summer months.
If you just have to spray something, try something containing dicamba or triclopyr.
I like clover and a few violets in the lawn. Creeping Charlie is the lawn weed that I hate. (fluffing it up with a steel rake, kind of like dethatching, right before mowing does a number on it and almost keeps it under control)
Bob
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zxcvbob wrote:

I agree with this completely. Clover, in general, indicates soil with poor nutrient level, especially nitrogen. Farmers of yesteryear knew soils where clover and Queen Anne's lace thrived were nutrient poor, and they would either compensate with green or conventional manures to be able to plant crops there, or simply would not use that piece of land for cropping. Improve the conditions for the lawn grass, and the clover will get choked out automatically.
> If you just have to spray something, try something containing dicamba or

Also true, but consider spraying as an absolute LAST resort, please.
Tony
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Tony wrote:

Not so. Here it is part of a mixed pasture that includes some heavy feeders who like nitrogen, eg kikuyu.
Farmers of yesteryear knew

Here clover is seen as a bonus and it is encouraged and in some cases seeded into the pasture. It is nutritious and loved by both horses and cattle. If your pasture grows clover you certainly would use that land.
Improve the conditions for the lawn grass, and

Not necessarily. At certain seasons clover grows better than grass at others not so well. I have had clover in the spring so thick the pasture looked white and you could hear the hum of the bees wherever you went. Later in the year the same paddock produced abundant grass as the clover retreated, the paddock has dense coverage (except in drought) and shows no sign of choking out the clover which comes back each year.
You are giving clover a bad reputation which is not deserved but I doubt the OP is concerned about grazing animals so this is not really that relevant.
David
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David is correct. Clover helps in fixing nitrogen to the soil therefore helps the lawn. The clover will retreat and lawn should look better.
I find when using the so called weed and feed stuff the lawn looks worse over the years for a short term benefit. I am sure the good bugs do not like herbicides also. The the bad bugs move in like grubs and look out. Lawn addicted to chemicals.
--
Enjoy Life... Dan

Garden in Zone 5 South East Michigan.
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????? Since clover is a nitorgen fixer, the soil where clover was growing should be a prime place to plant.

Yup.
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wrote in message

absolutely, farmers use clover in paddocks as a nitrogen fixer. Its good stuff.
rob
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That may be, *after* the clover has fixed nitrogen for a season or two.
Clover easily outcompetes grasses where the soil has very low nitrogen but ample water. I am dealing with a lawn that was established decades ago on sterile fill dirt, no topsoil. The lawn was treated all those years with chemical fertilizers and weed killers, and had all clippings removed to the local landfill, so it never developed any topsoil nor built any reservoir of nitrogen. One area, near a gutter downspout, has ample water and a great crop of clover. It is very green but has stems like wire and mowing makes it look just awful. I mostly leave the clover alone, knowing that in a few years when it has built up enough nitrogen in the soil the grasses will gain the advantage. In the meantime I have developed several very large compost piles, and most of the finished compost is going onto the lawn. Now the lawn is mowed with a mulching blade, and all vegetable debris remains on the property.
    Una
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is creeping charlie the plant with the round leaves, purple flowers & rather distinctive smell? i think AKA ground ivy? if so, as a brewer you should know it can be used in place of hops... lee
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enigma wrote:

Yes, ground ivy. Do you have any more info about this? I'm pulling out pounds of it from an overgrown flower bed; it's never been sprayed.
Bob
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glechoma_hederacea has some sources.
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Glechoma_hederacea has 70 images.
    Una
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Una wrote:

I saw all that. I meant specific information about using glechoma as a flavoring/bittering herb for beer.
Bob
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I would think that would require brewing trials. I suppose you could get some neutral beer, like Miller or Bud, and steep the clover over night.
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
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i just got back from NY, & i thought the answer was in the Brewer's Garden, but there's no mention of ground ivy there at all... so, i need to go dig out some other books & see if they have specifics. i did find that stinging nettle make a good bittering agent though. annoying as they are, that's a really useful plant! i'll have to get back to you on the ground ivy. the email addy works, so if it's more than three days remind me. i get sidetracked awful easily... lee
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wrote:

Do you have black medic? The most effective time to treat weeds is in the spring.

Follow directions carefully. Use sprays on a windless day.
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why do you consider clover a "problem"? when i reseed, i use white clover.

nah, you'd just kill it. might as well have a barren brown yarn. that really eliminates mowing. lee
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Lee, is this Chinese white clover, that is used for a living mulch?
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
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t.au:

White clover (Trifolium repens). i've never heard it referred to as *Chinese* white clover, just white clover. it's native to Europe & was brought her by colonists & has naturalized to all the lower 48 at least. it can be a cover crop, but i dunno about living mulch. i suppose so,. as it's not deep rooted. lee
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