from the Scientific American special edition titled _The End_
p. 23 acid rain returns from nitrogen emissions coal fired power plants, cars and then farming listed.
p. 72 bunker fuel (never heard of it before) burned by tankers at sea. if the international shipping industry were considered a country it would rank sixth behind Japan and in front of Germany in terms of green house gas emissions.
songbird
Bunker fuel is a very thick low grade of petroleum used in very large engines such as ships have. When spilled at sea it forms tar balls. When burned it makes CO2 etc the same as burning other petroleum. It may also have a fair amount of sulphur which is a pollutant when burned.
I suppose they have to list shipping separately otherwise the countries that host flags of convenience would get dudded.
David
"David Hare-Scott" wrote:
Great Godalmighty. Silly me: I thought this to be a newsgroup in which one could exchange gardening information and anecotes. Wrong! NOTHING has changed in the newsgroup since I tried reading it years ago. This is not a gardening newsgroup. It is a social and political propaganda newsgroup. With a few notable exceptions, it is inhabited by pretentious carping know-nothing fools who'd return us to using rocks and sticks to "save" the planet. Now, here's one who actually cites "Scientific American" as a reliable source. Regrettably, some of the gardeners also provide an "amen corner" for the twits. One would return to, what, sailing ships because steam-powered vessels burn "bunker" grade oil? Bunker oil is any low-grade refined oil that is stored ("bunkered") for later use; period. Odds are good the juice powering True Believer OP's computer comes from the burning of bunker oil and I daresay that, if the powerhouse shut down to protect OP's sensibilities, (s)he would be in the streets with a pitchfork along with myriad other loonies protesting the evil corporation that's letting babies die. Likewise with shipping: I can already hear the douche blaming those evil shipping tyrants for creating shortages and driving up prices. Some people simply try to think too much while lacking the basic resources with which to do so. The _real_ tragedy, as I see it, is that the nitwits can vote. What a world. I'm back to gardening, which I greatly prefer to reading drivel from pretenders who mistake the reading of magazines and the parroting of hyperbolic hysteria for gardening. Newsflash: Kitchen gardeners and, most especially, market gardeners of my acquaintance don't have time for such crap. They're too busy gardening. They have their fingers in the Earth, not in some slick mass entertainment "scientific" magazine. You guys can continue to play with yourselves; I have fall tomatoes to transplant, onions to plant, and firewood to split and a damnable (F)ix (O)r (R)epair (D)aily truck doorlatch to mend. Sheesh!
in re: ...gardens.edible: The chicken manure thing didn't work out. Seems "organic" and "composted" don't mean the same to me as to the shit's present custodian. The more's the pitty but, "...and so it goes". Have weekend plans to inspect a hobbyist's horse apples with the aim of claiming them as my own. Today, the headset shall host the five-volume collection of Handel's orchestral suites performed by Trevor Pinnock and EC. Luddite? Not really: I may garden by hand (well, three steel tools if one counts the trusty pruner and the pocketknife) but some days it's Stevie Ray Vaughn in the headset. To my ear, SRV drank from the same creative cup as L. v Beethoven. After repeated listenings, each frequently evokes a smile and a muttered "yes"; what more can one ask? But then, I'm a fan of Lady Gaga, too. But I digress; the tomato daughters await and the melonheads have shit to stir so I shall leave them to it and you, poor soul, with it. It's that blessed "unsubscribe" button for me!
And your problem is . . . ?
What are you talking about? Are you denying that shipping food long distances costs fossil fuel, and freshness (nutrition)? And why shouldn't we shift to renewable energy sources? (Fossil fuel is killing the planet.) Why is protesting corporations unique status as individuals in the U.S. wrong? Corporations only exist to make profits. Real human beings are trying to raise children and care for aging parents. Railroads drove up prices in the U.S. (the octopus it was called), but who brought up that subject? Thinking, reasoning is a problem? You don't believe in democracy? Maybe a poll tax would make you feel better. Who decides, who should vote, so that we can keep out the nitwits? I'm not so sure that you aren't a nitwit. Should that cost you your right to vote? You should be grateful that it is such a world.
Go to it. If you want to see my garden, all you have to do is go to
Is it just me, or do you smell the oder of burning martyr? All this self pity after calling David a marshmallow head, and myself an ignorant twit? My word, but you have very thin skin for one who tosses invectives about so easily.
At least I gave authorities (citations) for my opinions. I see that you give none. How do we know that what you say, isn't just pulled out of your backside? Out of curiosity, how do you hold yourself in higher regard than Scientific American? In what do you have a degree? What attests to your expertise? Why should we trust your vulgar opinions?
Lordy, I always regret purging the twit list, which means, in your case, I won't. Say more stoopid things, and I'll be there, oh yeah.
I was within a whisker of KFing you, but you changed my mind, congratulations ;O)
The group is about gardening + food. Capisce?
You don't, do you? See you in the funny papers.
Raging Rant snipped
Mi dispiace, tu capisco niente.
You are in agreement with him that this is a newsgropup about food gardening. Not so much about water fleas, bunker fuel nor philisophical cherry picked rants on organics.
The EcoNazi rhetoric didn't seem to work on the defunct Gardening Organic Newsgroup either. Stick to the topic of food gardening and save the preaching for your prayer group.
I'll believe it, when I see it.
See you when you come crawling back. I'll look forward to the dialogue in the spirit that you have engendered, MF.
buen viaje
Mignon, Gunney found a way around my KF.
EcoNazi rhetoric? I'm glad to see that in this ever changing world, somethings are constant. Sadly, I never visited Gardening Organic, Gunnny. Sounds like I should have. How was it? Did you kill it, personally?
Do you have anything to say about food gardening, Gunny? Do you have something to say on the subject of water fleas? Global Warming's affects on gardening seems like it should be fair game to gardeners, and evangelism seems to be back in style, even when it isn't based on faith. Are you out to burn Rodale's books on organic gardening?
To those who don't know Gunny, I should mention that he thinks that organic gardening is a shame. He prefers hydroponics. right Gunny? But, it's not for me to put words in your mouth, Gunny. What do you have to say, hmmmmm?
What's the latest in unsustainable technology?
about knee-high. The corn is late and looks spindly until it outgrows the shade of the potatoes, but the shade helps keep down the weed growth. Steve
But corn should be planted in blocks of at least 4 X 4, no? C C C C C P C P C C C C C or C P C P C C C C C C P C P C C C C C with a spacing of 10" C P C P C
And what do you mean by the corn is late, late ripening? I'm dealing with restricted sunshine (6 hr. full), so I'm planting Golden Bantam, which normally is 78 days, but 110 days for me. Actually, I'm not growing much corn, except as an experiment to see if I can get it to acclimate to my growing conditions. This is year 5.
Thanks.
It may not be possible in a short growing season. My season (frost-free) is about 5/10- 10/10. Potatoes are usually planted in late March and by early June have been hilled the last time. I'll take my pointed hoe and pull a furrow between the potato rows, plant and cover the corn a couple of feet at a time. The corn grows a little slowly until it gets above the potatoes but then takes off utilizing otherwise wasted space. It's just simple row cropping but doubling up on the space. Both yield fine, by the time I'm pulling roasting ears the potato vines have mostly died. HTH, Steve The rows are: PPPPPPPP CCCCCCC PPPPPPPP CCCCCCC
Understood. Thank yo.
Kinda bizarre that you falsely call for free speech and tell me to live up to my "ideals", all the while tolerating the narcissist berating and belittling people and wanting me to be silent. I do live up to my ideals slick. Tolerance runs thin for BS and lies. So since I paid my share for that right of ours, I do get to have my say, Yes? Or do you think you can take mine away?
You really believe people need to remain silent and accept BS because it's a free speech issue? hmm, So what's your dog in this hunt Phob? Birds of a feather? Part of the same coven? Socialist party perhaps? What are your ideals? As the man said this is a food gardening group, not the propaganda arm of the local eco party. Little billy also agreed and stated such, yet once again somehow he is granted special privilege for his "Glen Beck" approach to domination. Pretty hard to be so self righteous and still be fair,isn't it? I'm of the belief the recent undergrad psych study from one of your countryman, S. Mehdizadehm, is spot on, but she should include those others who live soley on the Internet and attempt to dominate newsgroups in her conclusion.
Yet I digress, So do tell me how bunker fuel is eaten in the great white north. Do you plant it in the spring? When do you harvest it? I'm sure being organic and all, you recommend just piling BS on it and hand watering so as not to over water, it is that about right? No IPM of course because that is not always organic, now is it?
So come on in, I will let ya wrestle the pig with me, there is enough mud we can all get dirty or have you finished with your false flag approach?
I=92m beginning to believe you really think your juvenile tactics will play in Peoria.
While this is still somewhat a little tete- a- tete, ya gotta know all these cute little foreign verbage you attempt really don=92t make you sound very worldly billy. Your still an American which means you are a monolinguist with 'tude and I still say an Internet scientist with an agenda.
Regardless, we all know you have never Kill filed anyone. Your narcissist persona couldn't stand to not know what someone was writing about you nor miss the chance to interject your narrow-minded pseudo science views in to any subject thread wile claiming your God given right to do so, but your false bravado claims to have done so. Still, I find you cannot overcome your childish use of subterfuge attempts to cover up your faux pas. Your pattern is so predictable, talk a lot of shit, make a lot of side issues to confuse the original fact, then post something back on topic so as to pretend to be the victim This appears to be the only course of actions you have in your little tool box.
I think you and Charlie show up x-posting around there last, according to Google anyway, Seems you were quoting R. Carson in those days instead of your current hero Mussolini. But be that as it may you still miss the point or is this yet another subterfuge of your latest F/U by agreeing with the guy? BTW, how many posts do you have under your various pseudonyms, without a net, wild billy badbreath or some such. Thousands isn't it,at least ~ thousand under this one huh?.
Why, yes. Yes, I do have something to say, billy boy. Water insects and bunker fuel are not gardening food. Any other diversions or disparging remarks you want to throw out? \
I must say how magnanimous of you to introduce me to your royal court billy boy. Yet you made yet another mistake billy boy, the word you seek is sham, not shame and no, I have never said that. Just another of your many lies and another subterfuge attempt. You, however, are a sham. I'm still betting your not practicing all you pretend. Yes, I do Hydroponics as an extremely viable method of sustainability, 1/10 the water usage and much cleaner and much more eco friendly than the BS you tout (literally and figuratively) . I'm also into Bonsai, aquaculture and have over 85 different herbs/spices going. Are these Eco problems for you also? You stupidly believed that I oppose sustainable agriculture. No, just the overly zealous proselytizing using deceptive methods of propaganda and then the bully ways when that doesn't work. No one has to believe your way is correct just because you post some doubious facts or pretend to have found and read the latest and greatest abstract on the Internet. Your not going to find the future by digging in the past no matter how you want to frame it.
You seem to gloss over any real plant science knowledge except what you can quickly Google to make your point. Your threads are all philisophical, but extremely limited to the eco book de jour in that area as well. (ahh, I now see the need for your use of the little foreign phrases... street creds for the internet, is that right?). Still, you cherry pick info, omit statements and cut and paste snippets of references of internet abstracts you have no subscription for and often misstate facts. Arguing with a PhD, how bizarre was that one? Referencing lawsuits that never happened, quoting MSDS sheets for the wrong substances. Failing tro verify your source's creds. Time and time again you misrepresent or omit facts in your zealousness all the while proving your narrow mindedness. Again you trip up, get caught and create a cover-up and attempt a quick getaway. Quickly posting some pretense on gardening to cover up the latest BS you portend. Planting corn, kale and potatoes this time is it billy? , Very much indicative of a narcissistic personality disorder. All signs of an amatuer researcher. What is your Ed background anyway, or is that a secret you don't want to share?
Debate is always a good thing, but your bullying tactics... not so much. But as long as you have the internet to protect ya, you can be what ever you want to be and you can say what ever ya want from the safety of the Internet's anonymity, can't ya. Still Gardening edible is NOT the philisophal venue to preach your BS, no matter how much you want to childishly cajole and ridicule someone while you continue to push your diffusionist POV. Nor is food gardening the place for the pretentiousness you want to call social awareness. go start a group called eco awareness or whatever. Do note however it seems other's attempts all failed to prosper because of the overly zealous proselytizing your persona requires. But who knows maybe you can make it work, but I'm betting not.
You billy . Keep cutting and pasting your pseudo science and keep digging around in the past maybe you will find the secrets of the future. Perhaps you can find the smoking gun that will prove your malady was a corporate conspirarcy in some secret corporate paper. If not continue making it up. Hell, Beck makes a good living doing it, so have you so far.
Face facts billy. You agreed with the man when you stated "The group is about gardening + food=94. But you can't ever admit that, it's just not in your persona. There is still time for help for ya billy, overcoming denial is the first step:
Actually Washington, I've not told you to shut up. I used buzzwords offensive to the stereotype of the American psyche to tell you you used an offensive inflammatory term that really means shut up.
I've watched you over time and yes, as you say, tolerance for BS runs thin. I was tired of yours a long time ago.
That, however means that I place a number of identifying factors in a killfile and you can continue to say what you like without bothering me in the least. You're more than welcome to do the same with my posts.
This is a place for communication. You are not the arbiter of what is communicated here nor is Billy, nor am I.
I don't agree for a moment with your assessment of the situation or the word domination which flatters Billy but is as incorrect as it is florid.
The name of the newsgroup as you say is rec.gardens.edible and gardening is certainly the primary topic but it is unreasonable to demand that it be absolute. That is a sure way to kill a newsgroup
I think that OT: and POL: (for politics) should be used when appropriate in subject header to allow easy killfiling. It is SOP all over USENET and used judiciously and consistently is a reasonable response to the point you bring up.
My politics have never been hidden in all their ambiguousness. They run a gamut.
My ideal is, generally speaking civility, and where civility on USENET can't happen, killfile. You do the rest of us a favour when you spare us useless argumentativeness with someone who provides the kind of mirror you can't ignore.
...and I think you're behind the curve. Gardening as it's growing up where I live is organic all the way. It is very political very activist and it's gaining strength fast.
If you ignore a topic it will go away.
Organic IPM is certainly possible.
You have the option of thinking this through.
You might as well, Gunny, because I have no interest in you. You are here for gardening, right, and not little moi? Well, get on with it. Post and interact.
Nor Me, well at least not yet :)
Some Day I will dominate the world and the world will all be mine!!! Because no will care.
Not much longer, the ISP's will eventually get rids of the usenet world because those that rule will not tolerate free speech.
Their use to be hundreds of postings here. Now just a trickle. just 10 post here for the day.
Killfile the few posters left and you only be responding to yourself.
Many politicians have lost their elections believing in that statement. Or does it grow until it cannot be ignored. However, In the usenet world it is more like: Post a topic - is anyone one there to read it.
Right and Wrong, Truth and Lies are subjective. Ones truth is another's BS.
Yes it is. While the this happens the world will be starving. Go organic IPM and a the few will still stand. Keep going as is and everyone starves, if not too little to late.
I love to wrestle :)
No, I have not thought this through. I know I am not the one you are responding to. I just have fun throwing in the monkey wrench once in a while :) Im just a little bored right now :)
The great majority of threads that I see are about gardening. The minority go off topic. Some of those get heated. When did it happen otherwise on usenet?
That's especially true of threads that conatin certain nyms.
How many of those who used to chime in are you in contact with? How do you know this is the reason they moved on?
David
What do you want to see discussed? We discuss the best and worst of our garden plants, offer suggestions on pests. We discuss organic vs. non-organic, and impact of cultivation methods on the environment. We discuss till vs. no till gardening.
What would you point to as a faith based diatribe?
I BELIEVE :). I know what the person is talking about. Almost all areas of study has a faith base controversy. It is a basic presupposition that many believe as a fact that may or not be true. Ex: Weather: Global Warming is true. From there a line of reasoning will continue to defend a way of life or doing things.
Ex: physics: objects move in increments from A to B. Others believe objects move continuously occupying all points from A to B. Zeno's Paradoxes.
Ex: Abortion: Human life begins at conception, therefore should be illegal. Others believe Human life begins at birth, therefore should be legal.
The list goes on... Such hard line beliefs in any forum can wreck it. Leads to insults. If you believe that then you are $&@:$;)) and the flame wars begin.
This stuff goes on at many work places also to the point of no real work get done. However, we all have our beliefs and want to express them. As for me, I like the political as well as practical. I know others just want straight answers without the arguing.
Usenet is older than email. The web is so developed that anyone can get the information they want on plants and gardening without the politics. As for me, I always go to the web for the information I want.
What I like about here - is the politics of gardening that will not be typically found in many web based garden forums. Let the arguments begin!
At least this is my belief :)
HomeOwnersHub website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.