Low carb, high fat cute garden plants?

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Bill wrote:

Bill, you are an obnoxious little piece of snot.
I am sorry that I responded to you in a civil manner in my last post, however as I am a strong believer in karma, I will take comfort in that probability. When you are diagnosed diabetic and come looking for support I hope that people remember you. You don't have to be overweight to become diabetic, something that you don't seem to know, but will one day learn; hopefully the hard way.
David
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Blah,Blah,Blah, You don't get it at all. It is the release of insulin that makes us fat. If the insulin release is not there or controlled by a low carb diet then you will not store the fat you take in. Simple as that.. Jennifer S. 206/159/135
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Jennifer, I would guess that you failed 3rd grade health class! :)
Bill
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Bill wrote:
I am bored, so I will waste a little time playing with the trolls.

Yep. You like my funny hat and pointy slippers? Colourful aren't they?

Whatever gives you the idea that I believe in a high fat diet?
Far from it. My diet has no superfluous carbs, low saturated & trans fats and is biased toward protein. I exercise for a minimum of an hour and a half every day, hydrate very well and do not expect any problems from the high protein. I eat large quantities of vegetables, fruit and nuts, cook with healthy oils, eat fish several times a week and eat only fully trimmed, lean meats in small portions. I have a BMI under nineteen and less than ten percent body fat. I weigh better than 45 lbs less than I did in June, all without any damage to my health or any likelihood that I will have any difficulty maintaining this weight.
You are jumping to unwarranted conclusions with your sweeping generalisations. Not all people who reduce carbs in their diet are involved in Atkin's Ketonic Kapers; some approach it it in a sensible fashion. This newsgroup is alt.support.diet.low-carb, and although there may well be a number of Atkins supporters posting here, they are just a part of the crowd, not the core of the group. Even among Atkin's followers, there are many with a sensible and healthy approach to low carb, not all are on permanent induction.
I maintained a steady and healthy body weight for more than twenty years on a relatively high carb diet because I exercised, swam, rode, ran, kayaked etc., every day. There is no health without exercise, there are no free rides. I have never met an obese person who had a regular exercise routine. Diet has little to do with their core problems. Motivation is the biggest single problem, along with lack of emotional security/support. The oft touted "fat and truly happy" person is someone I have yet to meet.
Strangely, exercise is one of the best anti-depressants existing, a pity more people don't try it.

Not being proved effective is not the same as being proved ineffective or dangerous. Sedentary people who derive most of their calories from protein do often have problems, particularly if they fail to hydrate sufficiently. Those who are athletic and who bias toward protein do not have any problems as long as they do not lift protein intake to excessive levels, ala body-builders.
The report covered the Atkins, Zone,

The only advantage of extreme low carb (Atkin's induction - ketosis) is suppression of appetite. All effective diets work by calorie restriction - there is no other way. I believe Atkin's induction to be damaging and unnecessary. The same effects can be achieved by limiting none essential (no nutritional value) carbs from the diet, capping calories, and raising BMR by building muscle with exercise.
I have been involved with health & fitness for most of my adult life. My renewed interest in these groups, particularly Low Carb, is due my contracting medically induced type 2 diabetes. I was on long term Prednisone. I doubt very much that anyone is likely to find a better diet and fitness regimen than the one I am currently on.
You certainly wouldn't be able to, you don't seem to be able to differentiate between low carb eating, something that is healthy, and the body damaging extreme carb-starvation type diets. You also need to differentiate between people losing initial weight, those who are simply maintaining a healthy weight with healthy eating practices, and diabetics who need to restrict calories to control blood glucose levels. All have different needs, reasons, and methods.
Why don't you go and annoy the Atkin's groups? Many of them have aggression to spare and could use someone like you to vent on.
Regards
David
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Bill said:

Nuts are things you could grow that contain good fats with omega-3s. Purslane, a green, is also a source of omega-3s. Sunflower oil has a pretty good fat profile (still more omega-6 than olive oil, but less than corn and soybean oil).
Nuts might be the hardest thing to grow at home as you would need space and would have to fight off the squirrels. Pick a type that suits your climate (examples, hazelnuts in Oregon, pecans in Georgia, hickory nuts in Indiana).

our ancestors ate. Fat from domestic animals is high in saturated acids. Fat from wild animals has plenty monosaturated fats and is high in omega-3 fatty acids. The closest we could come these days to a real 'paleo diet' would be very lean meats with plenty of olive oil and nuts plus plenty of fatty fish like salmon and sardines. (Polyunsaturated vegetable fats are high in omega-6 fatty acids, no real help.) The October issue of Discover touches on this in a feature article titled 'The Inuit Paradox.'
Side comment #1: Quite alarmingly, this morning's newspaper front page warned of dioxin contamination if wild game. So even wild game isn't what it used to be.
Side comment #2: I have kind of a problem with the whole low-carb thing. Limiting high-glycemic foods is sensible. Avoiding highly processed foods is sensible. Eating a lot of meat from grain-fed, confined animals and the wrong sorts of fats isn't. Someone close to me went on the original Atkins diet. He developed kidney stones and ended up not so much later with inoperable cancer. Soured me on the concept.
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Pat Kiewicz wrote:
|| Side comment #2: || I have kind of a problem with the whole low-carb thing. Limiting || high-glycemic || foods is sensible. Avoiding highly processed foods is sensible. || Eating a lot || of meat from grain-fed, confined animals and the wrong sorts of fats || isn't. || Someone close to me went on the original Atkins diet. He developed || kidney || stones and ended up not so much later with inoperable cancer. || Soured me || on the concept.
Side comment #1: Why do you assume that low-carbers eat a lot of meat?
Side comment #2: what makes you think that your friend got kidney stones and ended up not o much later with inoperable cancer as a result of low carb?
Side comment #3: if you're soured on the concept, it because you're a simpleton.
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Side comment to #3. Name calling won't help you change someone's view.
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FDR wrote:
|| ||| Pat Kiewicz wrote: ||| ||||| Side comment #2: ||||| I have kind of a problem with the whole low-carb thing. Limiting ||||| high-glycemic ||||| foods is sensible. Avoiding highly processed foods is sensible. ||||| Eating a lot ||||| of meat from grain-fed, confined animals and the wrong sorts of ||||| fats isn't. ||||| Someone close to me went on the original Atkins diet. He ||||| developed kidney ||||| stones and ended up not so much later with inoperable cancer. ||||| Soured me ||||| on the concept. ||| ||| Side comment #1: Why do you assume that low-carbers eat a lot of ||| meat? ||| ||| Side comment #2: what makes you think that your friend got kidney ||| stones and ended up not o much later with inoperable cancer as a ||| result of low carb? ||| ||| Side comment #3: if you're soured on the concept, it because you're ||| a simpleton. || || Side comment to #3. Name calling won't help you change someone's || view.
Side comment to side comment to #3. I'm not interested in changing someone view. That almost never happens on usenet.
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Then why even bother?
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FDR wrote:
|| |||||| Pat Kiewicz wrote: |||||| |||||||| Side comment #2: |||||||| I have kind of a problem with the whole low-carb thing. |||||||| Limiting high-glycemic |||||||| foods is sensible. Avoiding highly processed foods is |||||||| sensible. Eating a lot |||||||| of meat from grain-fed, confined animals and the wrong sorts of |||||||| fats isn't. |||||||| Someone close to me went on the original Atkins diet. He |||||||| developed kidney |||||||| stones and ended up not so much later with inoperable cancer. |||||||| Soured me |||||||| on the concept. |||||| |||||| Side comment #1: Why do you assume that low-carbers eat a lot of |||||| meat? |||||| |||||| Side comment #2: what makes you think that your friend got kidney |||||| stones and ended up not o much later with inoperable cancer as a |||||| result of low carb? |||||| |||||| Side comment #3: if you're soured on the concept, it because |||||| you're a simpleton. ||||| ||||| Side comment to #3. Name calling won't help you change someone's ||||| view. ||| ||| Side comment to side comment to #3. I'm not interested in changing ||| someone view. That almost never happens on usenet. || || Then why even bother?
It's about stamping out misinformation for others how may benefit from accurate knowledge about low-carb diets. Many many people here have benefited greatly from LC diets....
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Thanks for the information. Sunflowers are pretty, everyone likes their seeds, so, planting them in the front yard is a no brainer.

I would LOVE to plant nuts. But, the damn squirrels make it impossible. It is extremely unfortunate.

You know, I actually have about 165 lbs of pasture fed lamb in my freezer, bought on auction for $0.88 per lb. That lamb is, hopefully, richer in omega-3s fatty acids. Otherwise, I agree with you 100%.

Scary stuff! My only question about this inoperable cancer, it usually takes years for cancer to appear and develop. Are you sure that he did not have cancer before?
i
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You seem like a pretty reasonable fellow, you do realize that our ancestors were in poorer health than we are today.
Their diet sustained them through about 45 years then they died by accident, disease or war.
These days, we need a diet that will sustain us into the late 70's early 80's years of life.
Any extreme is not good, balance is the key.
Bill
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The amount of carbohydrates consumed by the average American is extreme. What's not balanced about a serving of meat, a salad, and a side of broccoli or spinach? Why do I need mashed potatoes or french fries with it?
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Michelle Levin
http://www.mindspring.com/~lunachick
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Mark Cohen and G. J. Armelagos, Paleopathology at the Origins of Agriculture. New York: Academic Press, 1984.
Civilized humans only exceeded the life expectancy of Paleolithic hunter-gatherers people in the 20th century. When people began eating technology dependent foods they lost 40% of lifespan. Cohen is a professor of anthropology at NYSU.
Stefansson, Vilhjalmur, Cancer: Disease of Civilization. New York: Hill and Wang, 1960. Documents the unsuccessful 100 year search for cancer and heart disease among hunter-gatherers. By the famed arctic anthropologist who was the last (white) man to discover new lands in the Americas.
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Ignoramus13229 said:

Cutting out most fruits and many vegetables (which he did) because they contained cabohydrates -- foods that are loaded with beneficial phytochemicals
--
foods that are associated with lower rates of cancer -- and eating loads of
supermarket beef certainly didn't help.
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That would be irrelevant if, by the time your friend adopted the diet, he already had cancer process. No amount of phytochemicals helps with a cancer already underway.
Again, cancer takes years from the time a cell starts dividing uncontrollably, until the time cancer becomes inoperable -- in most cases.
So, a diet adopted in the last year pre-diagnosis, is of little relevance.
i
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Ignoramus19552 said:

Sorry, I wasn't clear; shortly after the kidney stones (years on the diet) he was diagnosed with cancer. Kidney problems are most definitely a risk for some people in a high protein diet.
I don't believe the diet *caused* the cancer but rather *promoted* its growth. (The cancer was diffuse rather than a discrete tumor, therefore not removeable.)
Best advice, based on years of reading (in science and nutrition): eat plenty of nutrient-dense fruits and vegetables.
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Pat in Plymouth MI ('someplace.net' is comcast)

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What promotes tumor growth is higher level of blood sugar, which you would typically get on a high carb diet. That said, high carb or low carb, would not affect the final outcome of an inoperable cancer, it might make death occur a little more, or less, sooner. A matter of a month or two or some such.

That is not incompatible with low carbing. I am low carbing and I eat more vegs and fruits than most average people. My fruits are peppers and tomatoes. (they are technically fruits, although I tend to think about them as vegs)
i
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Ignoramus26859 said:

He'd been on ultra-low carb diet for a number of years...

I hope you prefer the sweet, ripe peppers to the green ones. Far more nutritious.
Blueberries are among the most phyto-chemically rich fruits you can eat. Plus dark-colored grapes and plums. How about peaches and colorful melons?
As for veggies, diet that discourages you from eating carrots and deep orange sweet potatoes is silly.
Final word.
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Pat in Plymouth MI ('someplace.net' is comcast)

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Usually, yes, although it depends on store price and what I can get from my garden.

I eat peaches sometimes, no melons.

I do eat carrots, I don't like them much though. As for sweet potatoes, they are not allowed on my diet and I do not eat them. I used to eat them before and did not particularly like them.
If I want to not lose weight and eat fruits, my personal preference is apples.
All in all, I eat about 3 lbs of vegetables per day, so, I don't think I will develop some vitamin deciciency.
i

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