To My Friends In South Texas This Evening

[Larry Jaques]

On Sat, 5 Dec 2009 15:59:33 -0800, the infamous "Lew Hodgett" scrawled the following:

Let's put it this way: Anthropogenic Global Warming(kumbaya), as warned about by the alarmists, is a myth. Most of us realize that the Earth is coming out of an ice age and has been slowly warming, but not at anywhere _near_ the rate the alarmists spew.

Lew, see if your local library has a copy of Peter Huber's _Hard Green_. It will likely give you a fresh perspective on what we humans deem important and how the "Green" movement is affecting us, both positively and negatively. It's an important book and I hope you do read it.

I've been on the environmental bandwagon for nearly 40 years, but I no longer call myself an environmentalist because of what the movement hath wrought. I think ecoterrorists may outnumber the greenies now.

-- Follow the path of the unsafe, independent thinker. Expose your ideas to the dangers of controversy. Speak your mind and fear less the label of 'crackpot' than the stigma of conformity. And on issues that seem important to you, stand up and be counted at any cost. -- Thomas J. Watson

[Swingman]

As a home builder with a recent, alternative construction, "green" project under my belt, I can guarantee you that more waste hit the land fills due to its "green" nature then in any two of my usual traditional construction projects.

.... still marveling at the sheer, unconscious ignorance of many of the misguided folks who have embraced this "movement" ... all warm, fuzzy, self congratulatory, and without a clue!

[Sonny]

I may as well jump into this discussion, also. I'm not knowledgeable with facts, so lets speculate some more. How will the world end?

[Mark & Juanita]

... snip

Umm, no. While it is true that single incidence of weather is not climate, a decade of cooling temperatures does indicate that cooling, not warming is occurring.

You realize that the report you are linking to relies heavily upon the results generated by the CRU -- the entity currently under scrutiny. i.e., it is very difficult to take a report seriously after reading the leaked CRU software README file and software comments.

Really? When the coder himself writes a comment to the effect of "Well, I can't make this work, but I can just make it up, so I did."? That doesn't give you just a tiny bit of question?

Having spent time reading that file and some of the software source code, it is apparent that scam is a kind word for what these people were doing. The so-called tree-ring record was based upon THREE ring samples that supported the theory while the other samples were ignored.

I'm not a climatologist, but I am an engineer who has spent 20+ years of my career working in the modeling and simulation of complex systems in real- world environment. Having read the pedigree and issues with the code from the CRU group, I wouldn't trust launching a test system for a system costing only a few hundred $k to a few $M based upon model results, let alone use that code and models to make decisions that will literally have TRILLIONS of $ of impact and impact the freedom of just about every person in every developed country.

Hint: Just because a few PhD's stand around and say, "Trust us, we know what we are talking about and here are our graphs" is NOT a good reason to destroy the economies of the free world.

yourself? Forget the e-mails, while they are damning enough in showing that the only papers accepted for peer review were those that supported the pre- determined results, the software and accompanying README file is the most damning.

[Mark & Juanita]

Read something today that makes a lot of sense regarding this. There are two camps of people, materialists -- those people who say that there is a material universe which behaves in a consistent way, and if you study it you can learn the way it works, and teleologists -- those who say that the universe is an ideal place. From what I read: "More or less, it exists so that we humans can live in it. And human thought is a fundamental force in the universe. Teleology says that if a mental model is esthetically pleasing then it must be true. Teleology implies that if you truly believe in something, it?ll happen."

The people you describe above Swingman are of the latter persuasion. They don't care if what they want to try hasn't worked before -- it just wasn't done correctly, they are going to do it correctly. If the idea of a "green" economy feels good, by golly, it will be good. Ignore those niggling little details like more waste or less available resourced -- by golly it FEELS good!

[Bob Martin]

See what's happening to the glaciers, the coral reefs, bird migration. The signs are all around for those who will open their eyes and their minds.

[Tom Watson]

The philosophical opponent of Materialism is Idealism, not Teleology. It is typical of the WikiPaederasts among us to create confusion where none has previously existed.

If you want to wallow in the teleological, look into Intelligent Design theory, which is its true home.

You need to stop reading shit.

Tom Watson

[Leon]

Look at glaciers at the south pole, ever growing. There are natural climate changes other wise there would be no seasons. Just because we only recognize 4 seasons per year does not mean that there will be "slight" deviations over periods of decades. The friggin sky is not falling.

[Morris Dovey]

Heh - I don't think I've ever seen this many people all in one place having so much difficulty saying "I don't know".

[Swingman]

Too bad big Al didn't admit that he really didn't know and is still making money off it ...

[CW]

[HeyBub]

What parts are getting warmer? The average temperature has been steadily declining since 1996. And even if it IS getting warmer, it's no where near what it was during the Medieval Warm Period (a time of great prosperity).

[HeyBub]

Heh! If that's so, then why do climatologists use weather as a proxy for climate change? They record temperature, precipitation, etc., and from that deduce "climate." True, they use other proxies that can't be called "weather" (i.e., sunspot activity), but to say that "weather does not influence (the perception of) climate" seems wrong.

[HeyBub]

No, the issue USED to be Global Warming. But since there hasn't been any of that in the last twelve years, the factotums changed the name to "Climate Change." It's hard to get funding for a "Save the Dinosaur" movement. But if we change the name to "Help the Lizard"....

[Bob Martin]

Might I suggest you get your facts from NASA rather than from Fox News or your childrens' comics? The 10 warmest years on record have all occurred in the last 12 years.

[Bob Martin]

There ain't none so blind as those that don't want to see!

[Chris Friesen]

Climate is basically the average weather over a long period of time, typically 30 years or so.

You need to record the weather to determine the climate.

Chris

[Doug Winterburn]

[Tim Daneliuk]

To that point:

"Conservation" is the preservation of natural resources in mankind's own self interest. "Environmentalism" - as usually constituted -is a form of earth worshiping pantheism.

[Tim Daneliuk]

Follow the money. Gore and his ilk stand to "make" hundreds of millions, if not billions, at the hand of government interference in markets. This is now, and has always been, a movement about money and power, not a conservation activity.