Well, it's really 4, 4 and 4. I thought the 120 quad above the 220v for the TS could share, and the other quad would run from a circuit dedicated to it. Having the two duplex halves of a quad running off of totally separate circuits seems downright dangerous (because its confusing)!
I could run my two 120v branch circuits from one 12-3 cable and a tandem breaker. Is there much advantage to two cables and two breakers?
As a non-professional, I suspect the price structure favors one 250' spool of cable. Others have suggested 12-3 (partially, for the unforeseeable future, I think), in addition to the fact that you get two 120v branch circuits from one cable). I intended to install only 20 Amp circuits everywhere--however Joseph brought up some new issues concerning this to my attention. My TS wants to be on a 20 Amp circuilt. I understand 12 gauge wire is suitable for that (10 being required only on 30 Amp circuits, from my understanding).
I need to assimilate some of this. I'll keep thinking!
It might be helpful to discuss concerns relating to putting lighting on 20 Amp circuits, as I think there is some inconsistency present. One advantage I see is that you can occasionally demand a little more from one of the circuits. I already have a separate lighting fixture/circuit, from the main panel, so a total loss of lighting is only a possibility with a total power outtage.
"Bill" wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@news3.newsguy.com:
*snip*
*snip*
If you're running 2 120V circuits from a 12-3 cable, consider that the neutral would have to carry twice as much current as it would in most situations.
Two single breakers gives you the capability to move or replace just one, should the need arise.
So, if I understand you correctly, 12-3 cable isn't really intended for running two 120v circuits, despite the fact that it's possible to do so. I did not understand this.
Looks like I can get a 250 ft roll of Romex 12-2 for about $70 or so. I'll be careful to avoid "burn-thru" (I searched for at least 15 minutes last night until I figured out what mytical quality being "burn-thru resistent" referred to). No need to explain, I already know!!! : )
Lew, Swingman, Mike, What do you think, 12-2 all around (you could talk me into some 10-2)? All 20 Amp circuits. Will inspectors like it?
Most of the application for a "(Garage) Building Building" permit consists of "Maps, Sketches, and Other Exhibits: Applicant must attach appropriate sufficient maps, sketches, and other exhibits, including a signed Homeowner?s Association Affirmation of Notification.
I have 2 questions:
1) Are before and after SU documents, along with written summaries likely to suffice for this?
2) Is my Homeowners Association likely to raise their head (for fear of all the the outlets)? --Maybe I'll layout a SU document with buffers, fans, and other quiet amenities. : )
3) I can see why some people might not go this route. It surely gets in the way of changing your mind. It sounds sort of silly, but "how much "vaguness" is allowed? Is a phrase such as "add fluorescent lighting to the ceiling" unacceptable?
The application fee for the building permit the maximum of .05/sq^2 or $25. Is that likely to cover both the "rough-in" and "final inspection", or are their typically further fees?
It depends mostly on the locations of the recepticals -- if you can run one continuous cable from the breaker panel to the first one to the last one, it may make more sense to use 12-3. If you have to split it in two different directions, use two separate runs of 12-2.
No, it doesn't. You "suspect". But apparently you haven't actually checked. Prices this morning at Lowes.com show $118 for 250' of 12-3 and $70 for 250' of 12-2.
Plus, 12ga wire is inappropriate for about half of your wiring job. It's unnecessary for your lighting circuit(s) -- those can use 14ga easily. And you _really should not_ use 12ga wire for your 240V circuits. I assure you, you will come to regret that decision. I *strongly* recommend using 10ga _at minimum_ on the circuits for your table saw and air compressor.
That's really not as big an advantage as it seems. Especially when you can run
168 feet of 12-2 for the same price as 100 feet of 12-3.
That's correct... but what if you decide to buy a larger, more powerful table saw at some time in the future? I cannot emphasize this too strongly: don't make decisions now that will constrain your decisions in the future. Run 10ga wire to your 240V outlets.
see is that
What does that mean? Lighting is pretty much a fixed load. A 15-amp circuit is sufficient to power 1440 watts of lighting. That's thirty-six 48" fluorescent tubes. There's _no reason_ to use 12ga wire for a lighting circuit.
No, it doesn't, unless it's installed improperly. Properly installed (with the two hot conductors on opposite legs of the service), the current in the neutral conductor is the *difference* of the currents in the two hots, not their sum. For example, with 11 amps on one leg, and 7 amps on the other, the current in the neutral is 4 amps, not 18.
I do not know about your rules and regualtions of your communnal type residential association or the politics of your state or governing body responsible for building / electrical inspections.
Where I am, the electrical rules and inspections are governed by the Province, although the national electrical code is the basis for the provincial Code. The building Inspector is a local guy enforcing local municipal Code based on the Provincial building Code...LOL
When the electrical Inspector comes in he will inspect the wiring asked to inspect. He doesn't care about structural building items or wiring that may be existing, non-conforming. It's really not his business unless things get politically dirty...maybe? He may make recommendations but unless he sees something really, immediately, dangerous, he won't get involved. Just paying the fee and calling him in they figure you are the consciencious type, usually.
As far as map, sketches and plans, these things are really only for the Building Inspector and Building Dept. of the Municipality. They would involve structural soundness and asthetic issues for the neighbourhood look and feel. Wiring is not usually wanted on the drawings nor is it used by most electricians on the job. Industrial is usually the exception. I have seen many people spend a lot of time making drawing for the electrician only to have the guys on the job totally ignore it and do it "their way". This usually works out better anyway after seeing room formation and determining "Ergo" layout flow of the usage. Specific weird wiring quirks are the exception for clarity.
"and closed up" means after the fictures are all closed up. This looks to me like "childproofed". No open wiring or electrical contact points that anybody could touch by accident.
When I "pushed" my third inspector to inspect my solar PV system he ran to his vehicle, saying I hadn't paid for the inspection, to look at his database. "Yeah, you have paid, it will he fine". He was more woriied they got paid for it than looking at it. I had definite no-nos that he should have jumped on me for. They look for knowledge and general attitude in your work the they run to try to keep up with the clock, here.
Most of the application for a "(Garage) Building Building" permit consists of "Maps, Sketches, and Other Exhibits: Applicant must attach appropriate sufficient maps, sketches, and other exhibits, including a signed Homeowner?s Association Affirmation of Notification.
I have 2 questions:
1) Are before and after SU documents, along with written summaries likely to suffice for this?
2) Is my Homeowners Association likely to raise their head (for fear of all the the outlets)? --Maybe I'll layout a SU document with buffers, fans, and other quiet amenities. : )
3) I can see why some people might not go this route. It surely gets in the way of changing your mind. It sounds sort of silly, but "how much "vaguness" is allowed? Is a phrase such as "add fluorescent lighting to the ceiling" unacceptable?
The application fee for the building permit the maximum of .05/sq^2 or $25. Is that likely to cover both the "rough-in" and "final inspection", or are their typically further fees?
snipped-for-privacy@milmac.com (Doug Miller) wrote in news:hunufk$vbn$ snipped-for-privacy@news.eternal-september.org:
Bill, I'm sorry for the incorrect information. After much thought, I think I can explain why Doug's right. (On opposite legs, the current draws are going two different directions (on a plot). That's why they subtract and not add.)
Year's ago, before GFCI were common/required, and before GFCI extension cords were available, I made a 4 foot cord with a GFCI receptacle in a exterior receptacle box.
I'd plug it into an outlet and then plug extension cords into it.
Or 120 degrees out of phase if fed off a network three phase system. Ths can be common in apartment buildings or large residental blocks. Now you get the vector sum of two loads and have to consider the power factor also.
The end result is a low current, in the neutral, anyway, unless you have pf correction on one and not the other. Not likely in a residence.
One leg has a -1 vector tagged to it so when adding it becomes subtraction.
Remember in the US and many other places the two voltages are 180 degrees out of phase with the other.
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