Rethinking "Made in China"

[CW]

I have made this point on this newsgroup and elsewhere. At the time "made in Japan" meant junk, I lived in Japan. You could buy anything you could ever want. The quality ranged from junk to the finest quality you'd find anywhere. Lots of the technology in common use there had not even been seen in the US (at least not by Joe Average).What perpetuated the "Japanese junk" idea was the American importers. Junk was extremely cheap, so much so that, even with a substantial markup, they could still sell it cheap enough here that people would buy it. They (the importers) new that high quality was available but there was no moony in it. The Chinese are in the same position now. High quality is available in China but no one is bringing it into the US. There is no money in it.

>

[CW]

Yes, the success of the American space program was due to imports. They imported Germany's best scientists.

[David Nebenzahl]

On 12/16/2009 4:26 PM Tim Daneliuk spake thus:

I disagree; I have a Crown with the Ektar 127mm lens, and it's sharp as a tack. The lens to stay away from here, apparently, and surprisingly, is the Xenar, which is usually a great piece of glass but for some reason the ones found with Graphics usually suck. The Optars that a lot others come with is just so-so.

What I'd really like to get my hands on would be one of Kodak's wide field Ektars (speaking of quality American-made stuff). Check these out on eBay--they usually sell for really big $$$. (Of course, a Super Angulon would be nice too ...)

[Swingman]

Well said ...

Only poor craftsman blames

Cool ... my main axe is a '61 Fender Jazz.

Just for grins, some "American engineering" ... :)

it sounds like this:

Me Go Home Whiskey.wma

[LDosser]

A more apt analogy for China is our national cocaine dealer.

[Tim Daneliuk]

Switching to OT as the material has gone photographic ...

Now that I think about it, you're probably right. It was the Xenar that was a dog. And, yes, the WF Ektars are still highly prized.

I have a modern 72mm SA XL that will cover 5x7 but I use it on a 4x5 field camera. A number of years ago I was shooting some of the bluffs in Zion National Park when another photographer asked if he could peek under the dark cloth. He was shaking his head and laughing when he stepped back and said, "You can see your toes with that lens." It's pretty amazing. From ground level I could capture the top of the bluffs (about 400-500 feet up) all the way down to the rocks in the foreground with enough movements to correct all the perspective I needed. The lens is, however, a beast, requiring a 95mm filter and bag bellows on the field camera.

[LDosser]

Or an MG ...

[J. Clarke]

So what percentage of the engineers working on Apollo were German?

Hint--go to Youtube and search on "Disney Moon" and you'll find that the concept that Von Braun was pushing pre-Apollo was considerably different from what actually flew (and before you make some ignorant sneering remark about Disney, do the search and watch the episode).

[clare]

And Canada's. All the brains behind the Avro Arrow put the Yanks into space and onto the moon. Strategic move on the part of the Americans to pressure Dief into canning the Arrow.

[RonB]

Apparently some folks are having trouble with the concept of the current global economy; and the history of our own manufacturing problems.

Today, there are relatively few items truly manufactured in USA, China, Japan, Mexico or anywhere. To slam a product just because it is made in Taiwan or China doesn't make sense anymore especially when you look at metal and woodworking tools sold by companies like Grizzly. Many of the parts and castings in "old American" products like Powermatic now come from the east. Much of the airframe and wiring in venerable aircraft like the Beech Bonanza and King Air are manufactured in Mexico and assembled in Kansas; avionics guts come from the east. Most electronic components used in fine old American TVs and audio components come from China, Japan or Korea.

On the other side, a complete lapse in U.S. quality control, during the 1970's, allowed the Japanese to to run completely over the US auto industry. But now look at Toyota. They are building cars, to high standards, at several U.S. facilities. This is probably good because the high cost of maintaining union demands has all but shut down Detroit and other auto manufacturing centers. This is doubly tragic because Detroit was finally starting to build some quality cars again.

The world is changing and made in ("anywhere") is a thing of the past. We have seen a strong trend toward survival of the fittest during the past year and those who can produce quality at a reasonable cost will probably win (or be taken over by government).

My job is to take care of my business by buying the best I can with what I have. If I can buy the same quality and function for 20-40% less the decision is easy.

RonB

[Dave Balderstone]

A surprising number of the best NASA scientists and engineers came from Canada after the Avro Arrow project was canceled by the Diefenbaker Conservative government.

[Lew Hodgett]

The same is true of digital photography and fiber optics.

Both developed in the US by non US citizens.

Lew

[Leon]

Snip

Only poor craftsman blames the tool.

Oh crap! I have heard the me too expression way too many times now.

Really and truly a poor craftsman "does not recognize" that he is not working with quality tools. A fine craftsman will remedy that situation with quality work through quality tools.

[Lew Hodgett]

Much of the airframe and wiring in venerable aircraft like the Beech Bonanza and King Air are manufactured in Mexico and assembled in Kansas; avionics guts come from the east.

------------------------------------------ "Beech Bonanza", or as described to me by a pilot in Tulsa, "Split tailed doctor killer".

Lew

[Lew Hodgett]

---------------------------------- It may still be operating, but at what efficiency?

There were some 1,000 watt mercury lamps on life test.

The rated life of the lamp was 20,000 hours.

Lamp was still operating after 20+ years of 24/7 service; however, the light output was less than 5% of initial output.

Your reefer may be in the same mode.

Lew

[Dave Balderstone]

Not quite... The CCD was developed by Boyle, one of us (Canuck) and Smith, one of you (Murrican). The Nobel went to both.

Ref:

Careful, Lew. You're moving into our Canadian self-deprecation territory and you do NOT want to infringe on that. We can be SERIOUS about that.

;-)

[Swingman]

Most any fool knows there are exceptions to everything ... it is the thickheaded cavilers who continue to harp on the exceptions to show their asses and ignorance.

Arguably, we were standing on the shoulders of giants when it came to innovative engineering and quality, for much, if not most of "New World" engineering impetus which resulted in the much vaunted "Made in USA" label of the 20th century, was due to European immigration to the America's, bringing their traditions going back to craftsman's guilds and their pioneering of early engineering principles in Europe since Roman times.

AAMOF, Canada, almost alone in the America's today with products like Veritas, seems to still exhibit manifestations of these traditions; instead of the price point engineered, MBA driven POS being produced by Chinese proxy for the United Corporations of America.

As far as many woodworking tools today, it is a FACT that if you really want quality, innovation, and excellence in engineering, you look first to European manufacturers like Festool, a shining example of innovation and quality through engineering which you will find no place else on earth in this, the first decade of the 21st century.

It's sad, but a fact ...

[DD_BobK]

Not to discount the contribution of these aforementioned Canadian engineers but realistically how many were enticed to come to the US AND how many US scientists and engineers were working at NASA at the time? (also consider the number of S & E's working for contractors as well)

Did these Canadian engineers represent 1%? 5% 10% 25% ?

cheers Bob

[The Daring Dufas]

I thought you were a Canuck, eh?

TDD

[The Daring Dufas]

Didn't they all come here to Alabamastan to work on them dang rockets?

TDD