Re: Do you support educational vouchers in schools?

It depends on the particular home schooled students, but.... you misinterpret things if you believe that home schooled students have no contact with their peers.

Most homeschoolers I know belong to groups of homeschoolers and take the kids together on field trips. Aside from that home schooled kids often do sports or dance or art classes within the community and sometimes even at the public schools and thus have contact with their peers in those settings and I do mean age peers for those kinds of things.

-- Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world that can be heard unless someone listens ..

The Outer Limits

Reply to
toto
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I want you to pay damages to all those graduate students who failed to learn anything in your classes, Herman.

-- Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world that can be heard unless someone listens ..

The Outer Limits

Reply to
toto

In general the school board hires the principals and administrators where I come from. Thus they have plenty of control if they want it.

-- Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world that can be heard unless someone listens ..

The Outer Limits

Reply to
toto

Ours has no say, and very little overall power in hiring beyond the superintendent. The individual school site-based committees pick their own principal and administrators, assuming they passed the screening interviews of the superintendent. The school board has no say at all (and they don't like it, I might add).

P. Tierney

Reply to
P. Tierney

Converted to the public school model, you would have teachers pay damages to those whose mental abilities were not up to being able to learn, or who for some other reason, did not learn. A teacher can only supply the opportunity and SOME help, not guarantee learning, as you are hinting.

I was criticizing the teachers who put obstacles in the path of learning, not those who did not succeed with all. I always expect the background with little review, and will not use anything not supposed for the course without careful explanation. And I will not leave anything out because of "lack of time".

As for holding a student back, I have never done that. Nor have I not allowed a student to take a course because of not having the formal prerequisites, although I have advised students, after careful discussion, that I thought they were not sufficiently advanced for the course. Read what I was saying.

Reply to
Herman Rubin

You are correct. But see the next paragraph to see the problems there.

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Reply to
Herman Rubin

Ah well, here it goes..

Homeschooling is the answer. Public schooling consumes $5K to $10K per student per year. Homeschool families can do a much better job with less than 10% of that. Want a HUGE TAX BREAK?. Encourage home schooling! The side effects will be a better educated population, more mature young people, responsible parents, and a society that values the family.

"Outsourcing" the education of children and young adults is a BAD IDEA.

What are the arguments against?

Can't afford it? One can homeshool for a few hundered dollars a year, if that; probably nothing if you are resourceful.

Can't do it; ain't smart enough? Learning takes motivation. Get some. Be resourceful. Ask a friend or neighbor to educate you on your weaker subjects. Teach the kid to read, and they can virtually education themselves. Teach yourself something. You might find out you have a hidden talent your public schooling never tapped.

Not enough time? What are you wasting your time on? TV? Both parents working? Too greedy to give up your time for the future of your children? A kid goes to school for what.. 6 hours or so. 2 of that is recess and lunch, and this n' that. So maybe 4 hours in the classroom. Probably half of that is wasted away on disciplinary issues, 30:1 teacher ratios, etc. You can do better.

Live in a state that basically forbids homeshooling? Move.

Your child will suffer socially? Yeah, we live in a society that lacks so much opportunity to interact. Do you know your neighbors? Invite them to dinner. How about your brother or sister? Or parents? Or maybe someone at Church, or community group? Make some friends and spend time with them.

The school system and teachers are the experts? I want the best for my kid. What do they know about your kid? What kind of expert consistently runs overbudget and consistently produces a poorer and poorer product? That's not even the point. Whose responsibility is it to raise your child?

Both parents have to work. Probably not. They may have to lower their standard of living. That's a poor choice of words. They'll be spending more time as a family, in essence much improving their standard of living.

Single parent. How come? (There are some valid reasons) Your public schooling decayed your morals and you made some bad choices? Find support in your community. Be resourceful. Set a better example for your children. Leverage your family. Read the above statement in regards to "Not enough time".

Ah.. this list can go on and on and on. You are either bubbling with enthusiasm or steaming with resentment. Take responsiblity for your emotions and actions. Then for your children. Or move to another country where the governemt will "take care of you". I hear Burma and North Korea are pretty good at that.

Reply to
nospam_coloradotrout

The side effects will be a population brainwashed to believe what their parents believe, regardless of facts. Most home schoolers are bible thumpers.

Newspaper article today pointed out that John Dean supporters are better educated and less religious than the general population. That's certainly not the first time that there's been a negative correlation between education and religion.

And that's what most of the home schoolers are trying to avoid :-).

Reply to
lgb

Well spoken. From your bigotry may we assume you were home schooled?

Reply to
George

I'm bigoted? Because I don't believe in an adult version of Santa Claus?

AFAIK, none of us cynical agnostics have blown up any abortion clinics, insisted on prolonging a poor womans possible suffering to advance their agenda, handled rattlesnakes to prove their faith, or prayed for WWIII on the grounds it'll bring on the second coming.

And no, I don't believe the world was created 6000 years ago and fossils are just god's little joke - or was that satan's ploy? It's so hard to keep up with all the flat earth types :-).

Reply to
lgb

Boy yeah, where we couldn't all be if we just didn't have parents. No sense getting "brainwashed" by one's parents when we have factual newspapers and TV to rely on.

Reply to
nospam_coloradotrout

No, you're bigoted because you stereotype and denigrate others.

You're also insufferably ignorant, apparently, of their belief, and arrogant about yours.

Reply to
George

Wow! I guess I've been excommunicated by the new pope!

Reply to
lgb

Parents should be one major factor in the education of their children. When they home school, they become the only major factor.

I find most newspapers to be reasonably factual. Except for the editorial pages, which are supposed to be opinions. And most I've read have been careful to include both conservative and liberal columns. Maybe I've just been lucky.

As for TV, it does seem to be a bit opinionated :-). Equal parts of Fox Spews and PBS should balance out fairly well though :-).

Reply to
lgb

So instead, you believe that, unlike true logical thought, in which, "ex nihilo, nihil fit" -- "out of nothing, nothing comes" is a fundamental premise of logical reasoning and scientific inquiry, you substitute "out of nothing, everything came" in which, with no causative agent, the universe just exploded into being at 3:00 one Thursday afternoon?

The statements you have made are in no way indicative of the comments of an agnostic, who acknowledges, "he just doesn't know", your comments are actually those of an athiest who vehemently denies the existence of a God or Supreme Being and strongly agitates for the suppression of expressions by those who do do hold religious faith.

Thus your other comments about those who believe as you have never caused mayhem in the name of their religion is also belied -- as those subject to persecution under the Stalinists and the current religious believers being persecuted in China can attest.

+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ The absence of accidents does not mean the presence of safety Army General Richard Cody +--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Reply to
Mark & Juanita

I find it strange that those who say something had to create the universe then turn around and postulate a "supreme being" that according to them, didn't need a creator. Seems like begging the question to me. Or, as Terry Pratchett put it "it's turtles, all the way down."

And no, I'm not an atheist, if for no other reason than a negative cannot be proved. For that matter, try understanding the terms "infinity" or "nothing" - you and I can quote the definition, but our brains are incapable of really grasping the reality. For example, our brains may understand the idea of atoms, but tend to give a big "Yeah, right" when told the toe they stubbed was mostly empty space :-).

I do assume, based on the number of different religions present and past, that if there is a creator, or creators, that the odds are very slim that anyone on earth understands his/her/it's/they're requirements for salvation. Indeed, they can't even agree on the existence or nature of life after death.

Most people base their religious beliefs on nothing more than the culture they grew up in. Not exactly the act of a (supposedly) intelligent species.

Reply to
lgb

The 3 most important words in the English language are "I don't know." Inventing a supreme being or beings and all the attendant theology in order to avoid admittance of that fact seems excessive to me.

We're not going to convince each other of anything, so I'm going to drop this thread here.

I will admit to one disadvantage in this discussion - if I'm right, you'll never know it :-).

Reply to
lgb

...

OTOH, there's always the potential consequences if he's right... :)

Reply to
Duane Bozarth

Reply to
George

One popular expression, yes...

Reply to
Duane Bozarth

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