Re: Central Machinery quality? (2023 Update)

[Jack]

You mentioned the material cost and time to build one, so you are being argumentative, with yourself.

Not to be argumentative, but I personally like the looks of varnished pine for all my stands and work benches. Furniture grade cabinets in a workshop just look wrong. I would not want an oak or cherry lathe stand, or BS stand. Expensive hardwood looks out of place in a shop, to me. The first thing I built in my shop was a work bench. Made it out of #4 pine sheathing they sold cheap for roofs. Still looks great 50 years later and all the drawers work as good as the day I built it. I learned a ton building it as well, and everything a built subsequently benefited from doing it.

To each their own I reckon.

Anyway hobbyist like pervade this group are not earning a living with their shop, they are in it for the enjoyment. From what I read here, most would benefit a good deal by building their own stuff rather than buying cheap ass metal junk, and they could enjoy their work forever.

Regardless, cheap metal stands like they sell at HF suck, imnsho.

[Jack]

Having space means you don't need mobile cabinets much. Time however is a non-issue unless you earn a living doing woodwork. Hobbyist are not doing it to save time, or earn a living. Time is money only if you are using your time to make money. Coming home from work and slithering into your shop to relax is a different animal.

You, for example have been buying all kinds of nice tools for your giant shop. I highly recommend you build some nice cabinets for them, complete with drawers and such to store stuff. You might even learn how to use them so when your wife asks you to build her a rocking chair, you might know how they work.

The bonus is when you enter your shop after work, you can re-enjoy your accomplishments, MUCH more than cheap metal stands you bought at HD with a cheap hunk of plywood for a lousy shelf, or a "workbench" you "built" with your credit card at Walmart.

[Leon]

You just need to get some more "flex" hose. LOL. I use a single 30' flex hose.

[Leon]

Its a vicious cycle. The Dem's promise minimum wage increaces and government help to "get that vote".

Then the Dem's move forward and spend money on government help and employers increase minimum wage.

Then prices go up to pay for minimum wage increases. Then people get laid off. Then the government has to provide more help.

All of that leads to inflation, more money is printed and the dollar does what it has been doing for the past 50 years.

Then the Dem's move forward and spend money on government help and employers increase minimum wage.

And then prices go up to pay for minimum wage increases. Then people get laid off. Then the government has to provide more help.

All of that leads to inflation, more money is printed and the dollar does what it has been doing for the past 50 years.

And then the Dem's move forward and spend money on government help and employers increase minimum wage.

Then prices go up to pay for minimum wage increases. Then people get laid off. Then the government has to provide more help.

All of that leads to inflation, more money is printed and the dollar does what it has been doing for the past 50 years.

If you like where this is headed, keep voting Democratic.

[Jack]

Welfare IS set up so you are better off if you work. They simply don't report that they're working. IF they ever get caught cheating, NOTHING is done to them, other than maybe adjusting their checks for the income.

Today, Government (We the People) is getting cheated out of BILLIONS just on fraudulent UC claims, but they have been getting cheated out of BILLIONS in Welfare, Food Stamp, and Medicaid fraud since Johnson came up with this permanent source of voters.

If that wasn't enough, they let in millions of undocumented voters, and just for good measure, they implemented massive voter fraud.

It's all worked out well, today we don't have a clue who our real president is. We do know whomever is pulling it's strings is an anti-American, anti-freedom, big government commie...

We the people have been out of the loop for a very long time, and there isn't likely any road back. 1st and 2nd amendments are about toast. The transformation is complete...

[Jack]

++2 Johnson was a wise man, no?

Nixon, a socialist himself, was in government his entire life, was worth $1/2 million when he became president, and worth the same when he left. He was a crook. Johnson made $16 million whilst he was president earning < $200g/year, and he was simply a democrat.

[Leon]

And compared to today's politicians, Nixon was a Saint.

[Leon]

No, because I thought it was a type-o. m ;~) Those home centers are expensive but wow I had not checked lately.

Hardwood Products,

And Clark's Hardwood Lumber, The prices I mentioned elsewhere in this thread are what I paid about 4 weeks ago for white oak.

I typically do not buy maple or cherry although they do have a large supply.

Yes, the demand, during Covid has gone bonkers. My wife and I went into contract last September to have a new home built. About 2 weeks after giving earnest money, signing the contract, and picking all the colors, and options the builder pulled out of the contract. They claimed that they could not guarantee the price we agreed up on because of the prices going up on materials and simply trying to find the materials. Building in the Houston area is going crazy and new home prices and been changing weekly some times twice a week.

Live oak is a white Oak in most if not all cases. Whaaat? there are many types of Oaks that are considered Live Oak.

I believe Live Oak is a bit of a generic term for a tree that is not considered evergreen but is almost evergreen. Live Oak trees are called such because they retain their leaves year round except for a week or two. Leaves, fall when the new leaves come out in the Spring. Sooooo If you have Live Oak trees in your yard you rake leaves in April, when they fall. And you do rake them if you expect your grass to grow. The leaves almost do not break down at all, they are tough and will blanket your yard all summer long. Personally I do not like them in my yard. Our builder, 10 years ago, put Live Oaks in all the new build yards. We yanked ours out immediately and replaced with Red Oak. Our yard is almost the only yard that has leaves in the yard in the fall. All other trees in our neighborhood are just now beginning to show signs of loosing their leaves.

[Jack]

Pay people to do nothing, and make them feel good about doing nothing, and guess what they do?

Welfare is NOT designed to help the needy, it's designed to MAKE people needy, just as Johnson planned, as noted in the above quote.

[Leon]

Just saying I value my time. If I can buy a premade stand, some assembly required, over designing, milling/cutting wood, and gluing. I might go with the steel stand.

Perhaps I should have said furniture style stands and cabinets. Although.... My shop built cabinets are built like the cabinets/furniture in my home. Just cheaper wood, like paint grade maple oe birch plywood. And poplar for the solid wood parts. Still Baltic birch 1/2" plywood for the drawers.

But I did build a tool chest many years ago, early 2000's, out of paint grade ply and A rustic oak...that I got from a saw mill.

40 years ago this was a hobby. Then it became therapy, I has some high stress jobs/positions. At 40 I retired from the daily go to work routine but stayed busy. Then I worked with a dear friend, 18 years my senior, doing work to ready homes for resale.

Some where during all of this time off I began getting requests, for the past 25 years, and I have lost count and forgotten what I have built for customers. Absolutely not a living but had I done any advertising I would have been overwhelmed. I am strictly word of mouth and I get calls from customers that have seen what I have built from customers that have seen what I have built from customers that have seen what I have built, from a customer that has seen what I have built. I pretty much refuse to take a job unless the customer comes to our home to see my work or tells me that they have seen what I have done by so and so. Then I know that they are serious about having me design and build for them.

Relatively recent stuff.

Check out this piece of oak I grabbed up quickly. 1x8 S4S 9' long. And the whole board looks like this.

[knuttle]

Many years ago I made a workbench out of common 2X4's and plywood.

I varnished the whole thing. It looks as good to day as it did when I finished, no considering a the nicks,etc.

The varnish is holding up quite well and does not have that dingy look of old paint.

I have many of my tools on planks for portability. each has been varnished. (when needed I clamp the plank to the work bench.)

If I were building a new work table, I would use varnish again.

[knuttle]

I don't know how many of you worked through 60 and 70's but during that time the minimum wage increased 60%. I was working as a gofur in a grocery store while going to college, and looked forward to each increase, as when the minimum increased Everyone in the store received a corresponding raise.

HOWEVER as a result of 60% increase in the minimum wage, we were experienced double digit inflation rates in the 70's as the effect of the minimum wage worked its way through the entire economy. We bought a home about 1978 and had to pay 12% for the mortgage, and thought that was great as other places were asking significantly more.

I know that the democrat activist will blame the inflation on business and the finance community, but they live in a world of their own.

[Scott Lurndal]

Come now. The double digit inflation rates were a direct result of the embargo.

Can you cite _any_ research that supports your assertion that the abnormally high inflation was caused by the minimum wage increase?

The minimum wage was $1.14 in 1961. It was raised to $2.00 in 1974, for an increase of 86 cents.

Here's research from the Boston Federal Reserve:

Key findings: A 10 percent increase in the minimum wage in a Metropolitan Statistical Area (MSA) is associated with an overall (all-items) inflation rate that is 8 basis points higher relative to MSAs that do not change their minimum wage. Yet this rise in inflation is not evenly distributed across all goods and services. Minimum wage increases have the largest and fastest measured impact on food prices, especially on food consumed away from home: a 10 percent rise in the minimum wage leads about a 0.3 percentage point rise in prices on food away from home for the first year after the wage increase, and an additional 0.1 percentage point the second year after the increase. The rise in inflation is slower to feed through to prices on other goods and services, primarily due to a slow price response in the service sector. By the end of the second year, the total city-level rise in inflation amounts to a 0.3 percentage point increase for a 10 percent rise in the minimum wage.

Spending on dining out increases, so businesses make more money.

Spending on durable goods increases, so businesses make more money and more credit is available to lower-income workers.

Debt is lowered in households with lower credit scores.

Pot Kettle (no pun intended) Black.

[Leon]

Started working in the early 70's and recall Nixon presenting a price freeze to curb inflation.

We built in 1980 and paid 25% more for the same size home 1 year prior. and in 1983 interest rates hit 18%.

The live in a world that does not know what math is.

[Leon]

When was that? I recall price freezes on everything on the early 70's. Before 1974. And I do recall gasoline still being 19cents a gallon in

1972.

Certainly both sides have guilt.

[Leon]

And all this time I thought Welfare was to increase the left's voter base. ;!)

[Scott Lurndal]

I will grant you that. I wasn't part of the labor force until 1974, so the embargo stands out in my mind.

However, from this bit of research (again by the Federal Reserve)

"Certain economists attribute the Great Inflation primarily to monetary policy mistakes rather than other purported causes, such as high oil prices and defense spending during the Vietnam War. In the 1960s, Fed officials - and prominent economists - generally believed expansionary monetary policy could propel the economy toward full employment. In other words, they believed that elevated levels of inflation brought about by expansionary monetary policy would be tolerable as long as the policy spurred economic growth and brought unemployment down to its natural rate.

Underlying this policy was the Phillips curve, which suggests that a trade-off exists between inflation and unemployment. Because some policymakers believed unemployment was above its natural rate at that time, they were more inclined to allow inflation to rise and move the economy toward its potential output. However, the natural rate was often underestimated: Economist Athanasios Orphanides (2002) found that the Fed may have overcommitted to its expansionary monetary policy stance because it was constantly aiming for - but never abl to achieve -an "optimal" 4 percent unemployment rate.

the rest of the interesting article describes Paul Volkers drastic measures to curb inflation, which severly weakened the US economy and resulted in two recessions in the early 1980's.

So, nobody seems to support Keiths assertion that a rise in minimum wage led to the "great inflation".

[DerbyDad03]

...and it's not just the price.

I looked at some 1 x 3 clear pine for trim in the bathroom I'm redoing. I looked at HD and Lowes (for convenience). It wasn't the price that was the problem, it was the quality. The only differences between their S-shaped, banged up, common pine and their S-shaped, banged up, select pine was the price and lack of knots. Pure crap and completely unusable.

I went to a local sash and door retailer. Paid the same price for boards that basically needed to be cut to length, finished and installed. They can't be selling crap to their contractors or in-house installers and stay in business. The stuff has to be ready to use right off the shelf and it was.

[Leon]

On another entirely different note. We were discussing the great freeze down here in Texas a couple of weeks ago and I mentioned a broken fire hydrant.

Your mentioned, IIRC, the break was probably not caused by the freeze. And I was going to inquire.

In our monthly MUD meeting this morning I asked our operator about the hydrant, which the repair cost was brought to the board's attention.

The operator knew of an issue with this hydrant before the freeze.

And he did indeed report that normally the top of the hydrant is empty/void of water, just as you pointed out. I saw that one and assumed more, because of the freeze.

The hydrants in our district are inspected regularly and repainted, we get reports on the condition of the hydrants periodically.

[Leon]

Well in all fairness to those type stores, the general public cherry picks the lumber. AND that lumber is typically not kiln dried.

If I need good construction grade lumber I buy kiln dried.

Yeah, off the beaten path, a non-retail type setting, you find a better selection. Although some pieces slip through the cracks. You find a few of those crack slippers in every new home build.