Don't know about that, but the insurance industry can damn sure give you
the stats for how lack of "experience" and mature "judgment" justifies
the increased cost of insuring 18-25 year old while operating motor
I can't imagine this statistical fact somehow magically disappearing at sea.
no. i mean that you're not going to be spilling a slushee whilst texting and
talking to the other 4 teens in the car in crowded rush hour traffic at 60
mph tailgating trying to find the right tune on your ipod whilst trying to
put on makeup in mid-ocean.
then you prove your counter argument.
lack of experience for a 16 y.o. isn't this case, as it is in a new driver
at 16 y.o. she has been sailing for at least 10 years and has the
comparing her to a driver with 10 years of driving experience would be
And after 10 years of driving everybody has all the experience they'll
ever need and have absolutely nothing else to learn?
If that's true, then tell me how two people over 30 with 10+ years of
driving experience can get into a car accident with each other? By
your standards, the accident should never have happened. Explain that
to me please.
it's either called an accident, or neglicence on one or the other's part.
given that statement, then no one should never go out in a boat since they
would never have enough experience.
we're not comparing 2 30 year olds against each other in this case. you're
asking about the insurance company statistics of comparing people with
similar years of experience at their individual tasks. i doubt that a person
sailing in mid ocean is going to collide with someone driving.
You've got to be kidding me? How about a collision with a big wave?
Boats get swamped all the time when their skippers don't or *can't* or
misjudge a big wave in a storm. And, it even happens when there isn't
At this point, I have to believe you're trolling Charlie. I'm gone
from this thread.
I'm guessing by stink boat, you're talking about some floating barge
with all the buoyancy of a lead bucket. In any event, I was referring
to the better boats, designed to be safer. Any boat can capsize in the
open seas under the right circumstances, even with an experienced
Sorry, I'm not arguing this anymore.
"Stink boat", a term used by sailors to describe the toy power boats
found in most marinas.
Anything under about 60-70 ft qualifies.
"Floating condos" best describes the larger ones including Tigers.
On Fri, 15 Jan 2010 17:56:03 -0500, firstname.lastname@example.org wrote:
My 30 foot sailboat has been knocked over flat on it's side a couple
of times in severe conditions. The thing about sailboats is that they
pop back up. The danger when it happens is that things and people go
flying. In the sort of conditions where that can happen, all openings
in the boat are shut and secured, and anyone topside is clipped in on
a short tether.
It's not uncommon for the crew of a sailboat to call for rescue and be
picked up, and then the boat is found floating months later with
little actual damage.
The vast majority of sailboats that sink, do so while at their dock,
Actually, that isn't directly comparable. The average person, once
they have their driver's license doesn't spend every moment they are
driving, trying to improve their skills and knowlege. The average
sailor never stops trying to learn more and improve their sailing.
Comes with the territory.
the topic under discussion is insurance statistics and comparing general
population individuals. they also don't know if the average driver has
stopped learning (they wouldn't know that i have years of high speed car
racing experience with multiple racetrack classes, for example, which may
make me a bit safer than the average driver). they would only compare
similarly aged drivers against each other, with modifications as to years of
driving experience, lack of prior accidents, ticket history, and perhaps
other non-related things like credit score.
Bzzzzt ... do us all a favor and DAGS to prove to yourself that "lack of
experience AND immature judgement" DUE TO AGE, IS the reason for the
increased cost of motor vehicle insurance for 18 - 25 year olds ...
This is inarguable, so quitcher arguing.
but isn't that the whole point of this argument? in this case, she DOES have
the experience, negating the comparison in age between her and a new driver.
she is NOT a new sailor, whereas a new driver DOES have a lack of experience
due to their age.
Charlie, I will grant you that "experience" does lead to better
judgment, but not necessarily to mature judgment.
Look at the age range to better understand the "immaturity" aspect.
I really don't want to argue this any longer, but do appreciate your POV.
If anything, that type of background likely makes you considered more
of a risk by insurance companies. If you are smart, you won't mention
any of that when applying for insurance. I'm pretty sure it would work
against you. I also don't understand how you think that background
makes you representative of an "average driver". The average driver is
not a driving enthusiast. They drive for transportation. Most sailors,
on the other hand, do not use sailboats for simple transport. They are
virtually ALL enthusiasts.
Insurance companies don't insure based on individuals. They assign you
to a group. They don't give a crap about you on a personal level.
There won't be insurance stats on circumnavigators, because 1.) There
are so few circumnavigators, and, 2.) Ocean sailors mostly don't have
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