No More Landlords Or Realtors!

[-MIKE-]

That's it! I'm sick of it. I am now going to ask the question, "Are you the owner/occupier of this property" before taking on any more repair work. I've had it with realtors and landlords who not only want you to use a band-aid fix for everything, but they want you to buy the band-aids at BigLots.

I finally told one, today, "You know, someone has to live here, right?" She kept asking me which of the two repair options I would guarantee for longer. I actually chuckled and replied, "Oh, I'm not guaranteeing either of these options. I'll guarantee the work if you let me do it right."

They're trying to save a couple hundred dollars on a house they'll get $2500 a month for in rent or make 50 grand on the sale.

One realtor asked me, "Why won't you just do it the way I want you to do it." I said, "Because I like to sleep at night."

There are plenty of people around here who are working illegally, not paying insurance nor taxes, and don't know any better who can work for these people. No more, for me.

[DerbyDad03]

Good for you...as long as you can afford to pass up the work.

If you really want to see some shortcuts, check out student housing. Even the really "nice" places, those that command the higher rents, are held together with Harbor Freight chewing gum.

[-MIKE-]

"Harbor Freight chewing gum." LMAO!! Good one.

I lived in a college town for 15 years... I've seen it all. :-)

[Leon]

They have a lot of work to be offered. I would not turn them down, I would simply give them a price you are comfortable with, no compromising your integrity.

[-MIKE-]

Yeah, I guess there's always that. I can quote a price, if they don't bite... fine. But man, it gets old dealing with the rolling eyes. I had something in the music business I balled the B:B ratio. Bullshit to benefit. Sometimes there's just way to much bullshit that outweighs the benefit.

I guess for these types of clients I'll break out my favorite motto... "I may be slow, but at least I'm expensive." :-D

I guess I just had to vent.

[DerbyDad03]

Have you seen a U shaped dining room table? I don't mean U shaped on the horizontal plane, I mean U shaped *vertically*.

My daughter lived in an apartment where they build a short wall on one side of the living room to create a "dining room" area. Picture a booth at a diner. One bench on the real wall, one bench on the short wall, with a long table in between. You could sit 4 people on each side so you get an idea of how long the table was.

They built the table out of particle board with a ledger board on one end and a couple of legs on the other. No support along the length. Over the years the center had sunk down so much that you could see the slant on outer legs. One of the more ingenious residents put a large wooden cutting board in the middle of the table as sort of a bridge to create flat area. You could literally see the slant in a cup of liquid.

Trust me, there was lots of spilt beer on that table. The would have to lift up the cutting board to clean up all the liquid that pooled in the gully.

[Ed Pawlowski]

I understand, your B:B ratio, it is not just construction, it is most every business. There are times it is best to walk away. I remember one customer calling me to say my quote had an error. It was something like:

1000 pcs $1.00 each 2000 pcs $1.50 each 5000 pcs $2.00 each He ordered 1000 and found a new supplier.

[Leon]

Exactly and FWIW I helped a buddy do this type work for about 5 years and we found that if there was a job we really did not want to do, too many days to complete, he would bid high. And oddly his high bid often won.

You have to educate them.

And that is when you bid really high. ;~)

When I ran the Oldsmobile service department in downtown Houston, many years ago, I had a young service advisor that put me on the spot one after noon. Actually I was pretty young too, 29. Anyway he introduced me to a young lady customer of his and told me that she was having no luck with getting her vehicle repaired at the other Old's dealerships. The three of us were standing on the service drive when he told me again what he told her. Ms. So'n'so you can have confidence that we will get to the bottom of the problem and fix your car even if it takes every penny you have! WHATTTTTTTT. They both busted out laughing, they were dating and decided to pull one over on me. I fondly tell that story over and over.

No harm in that.

[-MIKE-]

I'm starting a big deck repair job next week which is probably too big for one guy... or at least 2 guys would get it done in 1/4-1/3 of the time it would take one guy.

There's another drummer I know in town who does incredible deck work. He's been trying to get me to go in on some jobs with him because he's a one-man-band, like me. So I figured this was a good job to use as a guinea pig for collaboration. We are both ship captain types, so we'll see how it goes working together.

Since he does so much deck work so I told him to take the lead and he said he'd spec out the materials and pricing. He said he thought it would take the two us us 3 days to do the job and asked me what I thought. I said, "My guts says we can do it 2, but it always takes me twice as long as I think to do something." I told him, "Why don't you quote it for the 4-day price and if he balks you can always say, 'Let me see if I can crunch the numbers some more and I'll get back to you,' and then we can quote him the 3-day price and we're still good." He thought that was brilliant. The client readily accepted the 4-day price, so we ended up with plenty of headroom for this gig.

[Leon]

There is something about a high quote that equates to quality of work... I would say to do your best and it is likely you will get more work out of this. Noting better than word of mouth. And it is more fun working along side some one that is at least equal to you in talent.

[krw]

I grew up in a college town and moved to another a decade ago (though only lived there for three years). The college population of the second was about half the total population and about tree times on football Sunday. They're certainly amazing places to live.

[pyotr filipivich]

I recall a story of a hotel chain wanting to decorate with a "Tropical" theme, and commissioned a coconut carving for a prototype. "No problem - Ten bucks." They like the guys work, then say "We'd like a buttload more." He said " Okay 15, each." They wanted to know why he was charging so much, and he said, "the first one is fun. After that, it becomes work."

[pyotr filipivich]

Leon on Thu, 8 Feb 2018 10:23:42 -0600 typed in rec.woodworking the following:

How true. LOL.

Sigh, on the other hand - nothing like being told "Bill Gates couldn't save this cat." Sometimes it is not a question of money, but of reality.

>

[-MIKE-]

I've been trying to convince this guy that he needs to charge more. A LOT more. He's done a couple gorgeous decks that I know he took a bath on. Sort of spec house jobs that he can build a portfolio around. He does exquisite work and doesn't cut any corners. There is demand for his kind of decks around here and he just needs to get in the right circles. "If you build it, they will pay." :-)

That's what I'm hoping. I know we'll do the same quality work no matter what we're paid, so we might as well get paid. :-)

[-MIKE-]

Absolutely!! That's how it is on many projects I've done. I take on lots of builds simply because I've never done one before. When those clients say, "Oh, we'll tell all our friends about you and your work." I always reply, "That's awesome, just don't tell them what I charged." :-)

[DerbyDad03]

If it were me, I wouldn't reply in that manner. I'm of the mind that it onl y takes one negative sounding comment - even if said in a joking manner - to sour a dea l.

I figure "Why even put that thought in their head?" All it does is get them thinking "Hmmm... maybe I should shop around next time." Or when they are talking to their fr iends, they may remember what you said and pass it on - even jokingly - but their friends d on't know how good of a job you did. All they hear is "He's expensive."

"Thank you. It was great working with you. If your friends are as nice as y ou, I would love to work with them." That's a response that makes them feel good about them selves. You leave them feeling positive, not wondering if you charged them too much, ev en if it's just the tiniest little bit of a thought.

[Ed Pawlowski]

My step father was a builder but in his later years mostly did smaller remodels and kitchens. When he became sick and could not do the physical work any more, his reputation was still out there. One client sent a car to pick him up in the morning just so he could come and watch and teach the contractor some of his trim skills on crown molding and baseboards. He always said his clientele was not happy unless he charged them a high price. He did and he got it.

[Unquestionably Confused]

[snip]

Good practice.

When encountered a client who wanted to dicker on price, I would simply explain that my rates are my rates and take into consideration the job, the expenses and, the time frame.

You get to select two out of these three: Cheaper price, Quality Work, Fast Work. You get only two. If somebody promises you all three (holding up three fingers), they really are only giving you this (extending only my middle finger). It never failed to bring a smile and usually closed the deal. ;)

[Bob La Londe]

HA! I put a fire alarm in commercial building once for the owner. The realtor (building manager) blamed me for everything. Sprinklers didn't work. Automatic lights. Whatever. Worse I get called over to check it out, and nobody knew anything and nobody could let me into anywhere. I finally told her to stop calling me to trouble shoot all her problems for free, becaus ethe fire alarm passed inspection and works perfectly. The rest is just manipulating me to get free labor. The very next day I got a call from the building owner telling me his building manager had said he would be better off getting another alarm company. Irene Crites (Crites and Associates) was the building manager, just in case you are ever in Yuma. I am sure she is an absolute doll to work for and it was just me. LOL.

[-MIKE-]

I generally have a great relationship with my clients. I think that's why I get called back so often.

Sorry, I may not have communicated what I was trying to say clearly enough. These types of starter projects are the ones I usually don't charge enough for. In other words, the client got a killer deal on a superior product and I ate the loss because I wanted to do the project for fun and as a learning experience. What I say, "Don't tell them what I charged," I'm saying that so the people they refer me to don't expect to get the same uber-discounted price they did.

I've gone through the same thing in the music business. Doing sessions for $25 a song, just to get a foot in the door. But telling the producers not to expect that rate in the future or spread the word that I worked that cheap. No one wants to be the $25/song guy for 2 reasons.

1. You lose your shirt.
2. People assume you suck if you're that cheap. Same thing applies in the trades.

I have a huge percentage of call-back clients and I'm very confident in my "bedside manner," but I believe it's the confusion pointed out above that led you to offer that sage advice. ;-)