Lacquering metals

Cymbal companies use it as a protective coat. It works great to keep cymbals from tarnishing from skin oils.

However, it does nothing to prevent oak rust. :-)

Forget what you've done with lacquer in the woodworking realm; if you want to put lacquer on metal and have it last you need to think in terms of automotive painting processes. It kinda depends on what kind of "metal" we're talking about here, but in general a good primer is a must, preferable an "etching" primer that (as I understand it) has some amount of acid content gives it very strong adherence to the metal. And these days there are far better paints available for metal than just "lacquer" (presumably we're talking about good ol' nitrocellulose lacquer here). Maybe "nailshooter" Robert will chime in here, but barring that the simplest thing you could do to address the problem would be to go down to your local automotive supply store and see what they have available in rattle cans. Any of that is bound to be better than just straight lacquer over metal.

Of course, I just realized you're probably talking about a clear coat over metal, in which case most of what I just said is not really applicable. :-) In this case, it probably is going to be pretty dependant on what kind of metal you're going over. Aluminum, for example, is notoriously difficult to get any kind of paint to stick to it.

Clear lacquer works great over brass; they've been doing it for years on brass instruments like trumpets and trombones. I don't know if the cymbal companies use lacquer or something else (and of course, cymbals are made of bronze, not brass), but it seems to work well in that context too, at least until you've worn the coating off with repeated thrashings. :-)

George did a lot of research on this when he owned his drum shop in Akron. He was offering a cymbal polishing service and wanted to be able to replace the coating the manufacturers put on. He spoke with the "Big 3" and they all said they used lacquer. Of course, they was that term gets thrown around by woodworkers, who knows if it's actually lacquer that cymbal makers use. :-)

I did this very thing once, exactly 49 years ago this summer, in England, using what was sold over the counter at the time as "egg shell varnish" (? I have no idea). I polished the brass and put on two coats of same with a nail polish brush.

An 18th century French carriage clock, which thereafter sat on my parents dresser for 47 of those 49 years without being touched, and although the brass did tarnish, it has only done so in the last two of those 49 years:

(for the curious: the rocks on top belong to one of our pups (a true rockhound), and are part of her prized collection of rare jewel pebbles which she collects on walks, carries back to the house in her mouth, then drops on the kitchen floor next to the window ... apparently only because she can't reach the sill).

That's kind of like garage furniture, if you just buy it or it is given it to you, it's just not the same! Some in my family have "hoarding" tendencies too. I think she drops them on the kitchen floor for your approval--maybe an "atta-girl" or something like that! : )

I am aware of the differences in auto lacquer. You are right in that I should have taken the time to test it with an auto lacquer (acrylic).

Product I tried was simply a can of Minwax clear lacquer - claiming to be a good metal finish. Directions have no mention of etching base or any base (except a possible use of a sanding sealer - which of course is n/a). It most likely would be a good metal finish - it the item is to be placed out of reach and out of use.

The item being covered was a set of piano pedals and hinges. Pedals are usually solid brass, nickel (plated), or cast iron with a plating of brass or nickel. Hinges are usually solid brass.

Such items are usually polished and then lacquered to protect the metal's polish. The desired end result is of course a highly polished metal that does not tarnish quickly.

---- as a side topic ---

What are people's expectations of being able to protect items such as piano pedals? Of course these get a good rubbing from shoes.

Acrylic Lacquer I do not believe will hold up long. A conversion laqcuer seems more trouble than it is worth. Same for other conversion finishes.

So - some form of a polly? Easy to apply - trouble is of course long drying times - but this is usually ok since a small dust free area should be easy to come by.

Also - these items generally lose their plating - pedals especially. I have thought of trying to color them back by applying a colored finish (I doubt most customers would be willing to pay the expense of true replating). Opinions on this?

Thanks Mike

Whatever it is, they must be using a *very* thin coat. I remember cleaning and polishing up one of my cymbals back in late seventies and spraying it with a moderate coat of lacquer to see what the effect would be. I might as well have draped a washcloth over the dumb thing. It sounded like a pizza box. :-)

So after looking around the internet, there are a few products made for bare metal.

Just do a search. It is expensive, but available.

Some are single part, some are two part finishes.

So in answer to lacquer, I don't think it will stick without a mechanical bond, and/or a primer. Since you are polishing, there is no tooth for a mechanical bond.

Misstake may have been the alcohol. That may have lefe a little resadue from buffing. I clean with lacquer thinner when going to lacquer on metal. No problems here. WW

Ah, thats much better information. I thought it was steel or other malleable iron.

I have painted over brass with clear rustoleum and no problems. Just give it a few days to harden. Use acetone to clean first, then buff any residue off with a soft cloth.

That's cute :)

Refers to the finished texture/appearance - not high gloss.

Not sure how it would work on metal, but dewaxed shellac works beautifully as a sealer under lacquer on wood.

I have no idea of the expense of replating, but I would suggest you speak with your local Harley motorcycle guy/expert about replating. Those guys replate their chrome parts and custom made parts. Those replating guys are already be set up for replating small parts. I would think they would know something, to lead you to a correct answer or source for replating your piano petals.... appropriate estimates, etc. They might even know something about applying a clearcoat finish onto metal.

Sonny

You may have buffed it too much or denatured alcohol is not the way to go to make sure it is clean enough.

I do know, from my friends who do copper and brass jewelry, that some metals need to be "pickled" first for best results. Traditionally that's a light acid etch (which acid depends on the metal), but there are mechanical methods as well.

-Wm

Nope - I am still very much a novice, but have done studying. So far some knowledge mixed with some skill - very possibly more knowledge than skill :) - or possibly very little of each lol

Mike

A lot of good information - gives me a lot of possible options.

The pedals are usually solid brass, or an iron with nickel or brass plating. They generally come lacquered. But, at least for the pedals, obviously it would seem that is more to prevent tarnish while in storage than anything else :)

For the plated pedals the area the feet rest on usually is worn through after a few years.

I guess there really is no way to protect items under such wear.

Sending them out for replating would of course only be an option for customers with the better pianos.

Like I said - a lot to think about - a lot of information. Thanks all Mike