I did a bad ting George

[Fred]

Besides if you have the blade guard on, the chances of a kickback is less and if you're pulling from the back, the worse is you hands smashing into the blade guard. I don't want to push the piece into the blade guard since I don't have a clear vision under the guard. I guess we are assuming most of us don't use blade gards which includes me as well.

I've been ripping long narrow (1/4" or less) this morning and pulling from the back - seems to me it's safer to pull from the back than push into the blade with only 1/4" or less clearance. But I could be wrong but lucky for

25 years.

As far as pulling from the back I see contractors do that all the time even see them doing it on the home improvement shows. For long pieces I don't think I've seen a contractor pushing it all the way and a some point he is going to go around and pull it - it just seem like a natural process but again could be wrong technique. I wonder has anyone seen Norm pulling from the back? He doesn't use a blade guard either.

[J]

I'd be hesitant to do this with a short board, but I do it all the time with longer pieces of wood.

-j

[David]

Tell you what. Why don't you run an experiment to test your hypothesis? If it fails, have someone type up the results for us. Dave

[David]

did you read Donnie's post? I rest my case...

Dave

[David]

No, the fingers were BEHIND the blade. No matter that his other hand was pushing. so what. the fact is the hand behind the blade was drawn into the blade.

Dave

[David]

One of the FEW kickbacks I've had on my Unisaw came within the first day or two of firing it up. The guard's plastic shield rested on the workpiece at an angle due to the narrowness of the piece and forced it to twist, resulting in a horrendous kickback. Right after that incident, after I evaluated why it happened, I removed the offending part. I rarely (not NEVER; just RARELY) use a splitter either. I can see where the blade is, and I keep my precious fingers WELL away from it. I use push blocks and push sticks.

Good technique prevents kickbacks except for the case of relieved tension in a board that jambs it between the fence and blade.

I'm not suggestion that YOU go sans guard. Just reporting how I prefer to run MY TS.

YMMV.

Dave

[no(SPAM)vasys]

I've seen the trick and have even tried it. I prefer to keep my china and fingers intact.

[LRod]

Clearly you do not comprehend the mechanics of the incident.

OP was standing in front of the saw (normal position). He was pushing a large block of wood through with one hand. He reached up and pushed the far end of the wood DOWN past the blade. Then the kickback occured. Regardless of how he wrote the description it is clear that the far hand DROPPED onto the blade rather than was pulled, OR the momentum of his pushing hand being pushed back along with his body drew the other hand back. The wood did not pull his hand back. That defies physics and logic.

Besides, that is NOT the operation we're discussing. We're discussing standing behind the saw, pulling on a piece of wood. Try your own SAFE experiment. Take a piece of wood; 1x3 would be typical for the operation being discussed, but suit yourself. Grab it with one hand as if you were pulling it through saw (that means no death grip) and have SWMBO or #1 kid suddenly yank the other end (just like a kickback would). I defy you to keep a grip, much less be pulled toward him/her.

Report the results to us. You can type them yourself.

[David]

snip

You go first. :)

Dave

[LRod]

I don't think anyone suggested this with a short board. I certainly didn't and wouldn't.

[Thomas Bunetta]

I may be sorry I jumped in here... but here goes.

He wasn't suggesting you use a saw, just another person . You hold the board, someone else pulls it out of your hands.

No one around? Tom

[Thomas Bunetta]

A breath of fresh air, succinct and well stated! Tom (who also is guilty of pulling his piece(s) occasionally {Don't even go there} Tom

[Donnie Vazquez]

Wrong, I was pushing down lightly with my left hand on the back of the board behind the blade, while pushing with my right hand. The kickback most definitely pulled my left hand back through the blade. Not down on top. Physics and logic aside, that's what happened, and it all happened in the blink of an eye.

[LRod]

Nevertheless, what you were doing and what the OP was doing are two entirely different operations. I stand by my assertion that it is not possible for one's hand(s) to be pulled into the blade from a kickback while pulling the work through from the back of the saw, your experience under completely circumstances notwithstanding..

It's the same reason I was taught not to ever have one's hands on the workpiece over the cutterhead when operating a jointer. Kickback, board goes, hand stays, love grows...oops, a '60s flashback there.

[Mark & Juanita]

... or, given that one were to be performing such an operation and realizing the potential danger, not pulling the wood through with a death grip on the piece. i.e., a soft touch.

+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough +--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

[mogura]

I was doing this with some pine I was ripping down. When I got to the core the wood was quite weak. The saw grabbed it and shot it across the room. Wow. I was surprised. But then again I was on the other side so my heart was hardly beating any faster. It did NOT suck me into the saw.

This discussion is silly. People pull wood through tablesaws all the time. It is no less safe than pushing it.

-j

[Buster]

Unlikely and not possible are two different things.

I think in the example given the operator had enough mechanical control over (from featherboards) the board that kickback would be very unlikely. But for now lets just look at pulling the board through in general.

I agree that it's very unlikely that you'd be pulled into the saw horror movie style, however there is still a chance that the board could 'move' your hands towards or into the blade.

I have seen the example of the Table cloth magic trick used many times in this discussion. Has anyone seen it done wrong, ever try it and sent mom's tuperware all over the kitchen? The cloth has to be pulled straight back for this to work. Your example of the jointer 'kickback' is the same, the jointer will push the board directly back. So the tablecloth analogy is applicable. In a tablesaw the board is also lifted and twisted during kickback (as compared to an ejection, where the board shoots back out of the saw). So the neither anolgy is really applicable.

I think it would depend on many factors: like how far behind the blade you are holding the board, other safety equipment being used... Blah, blah, blah... What it comes down to is ensuring that we are safe at our saws. It's not enough to 'feel safe' and play the 'it's unlikely to happen game', we must ask ourselves two basic questions: Where are my fingers? & In which position do we have the most control of the work piece? Ultimatley if we control the work peice and don't run our fingers into the blade we should have a safe cut. There are lots of people that don't use splitter or guards that do it everyday.

Safe Sawing

Buster

[George]

Physiology supplies a good explanation. The muscles of the arm contracted as the initial whack was felt - basic reflex. Hand and arm go toward the body, blade in between.

[RayV]

Seems like the consensus, if there is one, is this:

"If it feels safe to you, then it IS safe"

I didn't feel safe making the cut the way I did, so I guess I will need to figure out a better way next time. For the record, it wasn't pulling the piece from the back that didn't feel right. I have pulled wood through numerous times before without feeling uncomfortable. It also wasn't ripping a board at 45d that didn't feel right. I have done this before with shorter but wider boards.

It was the combination of everything that didn't feel right: Feather board close to blade Narrow board I couldn't use a push stick on Angled rip cut Board didn't hang off the edge of my outfeed table before I had to pull it

So, next time I will have to do it differently so I feel safe.

"Can't we all just get along?" Rodney King

[David]

WRONG! Pulling with your hands is more dangerous than PUSHING with a pushstick.

Dave