Festool price increase

Hmmm.... I wonder how much the market can stand.
I saw on the Festool website that they are going to raise prices once again . Obviously they are selling a lot of tools or they wouldn't be raising pr ices. Their quality is without doubt, as well is their engineering.
But I do have to think somewhere in the mix folks will say "enough". I tru ly believe that for someone like Leon that uses his Festool machines the wa y he does they are worth the price. Some of their tools aren't /that/ bad in their pricing, but they have long been out of range for the casual or pa rt time woodworker that is trying to build a shop and needs a lot of basic tools.
As a full time professional I have always spent a lot of money on tools if I thought they were worth it. Back in the mid 70s, I spent $95 on a Milwau kee corded drill when I could buy Porter Cable (when it was quality!), Diss ton, Stanley commercial, and a couple of other professional brands for $50 to $65. Similarly, I bought my Milwaukee circular saw, and my Porter Cable trim carpenter's circular saw. At a couple of bucks an hour, it took me a while to be able to afford them. But since I literally made a living with those tools and relied on them to perform everyday, I was encouraged (instr ucted?) to purchase tools that would perform reliably and last on the job s ite. OK, I got that. That first Milwaukee tool still works (!), the PC tr im circular saw still works(!), and I have a Milwaukee circular saw I bough t new about 35 years ago that still works. They have seen a few lifetimes of work and still perform, so they were worth double, triple and even four times the price of the competing products.
But what about Festool? How are they positioning themselves in the market? They are too expensive to take to a job site as they would surely sprout legs and be gone in a day on some sites. When considering all the rigors, hard duty, misuse, accidents, and all the other site conditions that exist on a daily basis, no contractors or subcontractors I know use Festool produ cts. Not even in their personal shops. Not a drill, not even a drill bit. So the folks I know that would get the most use out of them don't buy. W ith other contractors from other areas and even states, that is the case.
So I wonder, who is buying these tools? Is it the guy that likes driving a Maserati when a Ford will do? Is it the serious collector? And I would h ave to ask, does anyone know (even by internet acquaintance) besides Leon t hat use Festool products professionally, or even as a serious hobbyist that turns out a few projects a year?
I get pleasure from using really nice tools myself, but there has to be con sideration for the quality/utility equation. The Domino machine, I truly g et. There is no competitor, no machine on the market that does what it doe s. Kind of like when Lamello had the market on biscuit machines. But with it poised to most likely be over a $1000 now (and don't forget tax) who wi ll be buying it? Beats me.
Anyway, for those that are thinking of buying, at least they have extended the courtesy of letting folks know there is a price boost coming.
Robert
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On 2017-03-07 1:04 PM, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote: > Hmmm.... I wonder how much the market can stand. >

raise prices once again. Obviously they are selling a lot of tools or they wouldn't be raising prices. The ir quality is without doubt, as well is their engineer ing. > > But I do have to think somewhere in the mix folks will say "enough". I truly believe that for so meone like Leon that uses his Festool machines the way he does they are worth the price. Some of their tool s aren't /that/ bad in their pricing, but they have lo ng been out of range for the casual or part time woodw orker that is trying to build a shop and needs a lot o f basic tools. > > As a full time professional I hav e always spent a lot of money on tools if I thought th ey were worth it. Back in the mid 70s, I spent $95 on a Milwaukee corded drill when I could buy Porter Cabl e (when it was quality!), Disston, Stanley commercial, and a couple of other professional brands for $50 to $65. Similarly, I bought my Milwaukee circular saw, an d my Porter Cable trim carpenter's circular saw. At a couple of bucks an hour, it took me a while to be abl e to afford them. But since I literally made a living with those tools and relied on them to perform everyd ay, I was encouraged (instructed?) to purchase tools t hat would perform reliably and last on the job site. OK, I got that. That first Milwaukee tool still works (!), the PC trim circular saw still works(!), and I h ave a Milwaukee circular saw I bought new about 35 yea rs ago that still works. They have seen a few lifetim es of work and still perform, so they were worth doubl e, triple and even four times the price of the competi ng products. > > But what about Festool? How are th ey positioning themselves in the market? They are too expensive to take to a job site as they would surely sprout legs and be gone in a day on some sites. When considering all the rigors, hard duty, misuse, acciden ts, and all the other site conditions that exist on a daily basis, no contractors or subcontractors I know u se Festool products. Not even in their personal shops . Not a drill, not even a drill bit. So the folks I know that would get the most use out of them don't buy . With other contractors from other areas and even st ates, that is the case. > > So I wonder, who is buyi ng these tools? Is it the guy that likes driving a Ma serati when a Ford will do? Is it the serious collect or? And I would have to ask, does anyone know (even b y internet acquaintance) besides Leon that use Festool products professionally, or even as a serious hobbyis t that turns out a few projects a year? > > I get pl easure from using really nice tools myself, but there has to be consideration for the quality/utility equati on. The Domino machine, I truly get. There is no com petitor, no machine on the market that does what it do es. Kind of like when Lamello had the market on biscu it machines. But with it poised to most likely be ove r a $1000 now (and don't forget tax) who will be buyin g it? Beats me. > > Anyway, for those that are thin king of buying, at least they have extended the courte sy of letting folks know there is a price boost coming . > Tom Silva uses them on the job site but I kind o f doubt he bought them himself.
--
Froz....


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On 3/7/2017 12:04 PM, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

FWIW It is hyped as a price increase by retailers, buy NOW before the increase. I have noticed, in past years, that is comes up as a "price change". I have seen items actually go down in price as well as not change at all. That is not to say that there will not be a price increase on some items. And IIRC they do this every year at about this time. I also recall a published list of the product line before and after price change.

I can see how it would be tough, in a mixed company setting, to bring a load of Festools to a job site and leave with what yu brought. Swingman and I have worked in mixed company with out Festools but we knew the people that were working beside. We did not leave them out when we broke for lunch. I use to buy PC sanders and actually wore a few out after being repaired multiple times. The OP SpeedBloc comes to mind. A pronominal finish sander, that would raise a cloud of dust. AND that sander got replaced by a Festool for one reason only, to subtract the dust out of the equation. I already had the FT Dust Extractor, which is kind to your ears and works extremely well.
Moving on, I think if contractors realized that they did not have to mask off a room. to control dust, Festool might look better. And the track saw eliminates the need for an onsite table saw.
I recall refacing kitchen cabinets with 1/8" maple veneer and replacing the doors and drawers about 9 years ago. The customer/neighbor/good friend masked off all of the cabinet openings the evening after I applied the veneers to the front of the cabinets. Every thing that was in the cabinets was left in the cabinets. I returned the next morning to sand all of the surfaces. He left to take a nap, about 20 feet away, while I sanded the cabinets. I was using the dust extractor vac and my Rotex and finish sander. I had to wake him up and he was shocked to find little to no dust on the counter tops and floor.
In the old days I learned to look for a layer of dust before feeling the condition of the sanded surface. Now I have to feel with out a visual indicator.

YES!
Is it the serious collector?
YES!

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On 3/7/2017 12:04 PM, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote: Snip

This is new to me.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PLFGIE_jCN0y4erQBEt8vV3qkgVs1YzH2f&v=zmVXbP21NHk

In action.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5i0jVUvFck&index=2&list=PLFGIE_jCN0y4erQBEt8vV3qkgVs1YzH2f

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On Tuesday, March 7, 2017 at 12:57:54 PM UTC-6, Leon wrote:
Please note that my comments were about the market, the marketplace, and po tential clientele than anything else. Certainly, the quality of their tool s speak for itself. But I do stand by what I said, you Leon, and Swing too are the only Festool users I know in a commercial environment. I was blow n away by the smooth, splinter free cuts from Swingman's track saw when he was breaking down sheet goods to make cabinets. We both agreed that the cu ts themselves were easily cabinet grade, ready to go.

=zmVXbP21NHk

0y4erQBEt8vV3qkgVs1YzH2f
Two things come to mind. First, for Festool, the connectors are surprising ly affordable for the quality and sturdiness of the connections.
Second, you can only use the big boy Domino to carve the appropriate mortis e. So... another $1400 plus tax? Yikes!!
Robert
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On 3/7/2017 2:35 PM, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

Understood, I was just commenting on what value I see and what might be a value to a full time contractor. ;~)

In action.

Yu-huh... Ok, if you already have the big'n.

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It would be real useful for setup in the shop, verifying the fitting, disassembly shipping or transporting to the end user. No big pieces to have to work through a tight spot?
There is also a video on how to link two Formica countertops together, or any other wide boards together with a different style connector. One also that is setup to link thick mdf boards without splitting them.
I could see a lot of possibilities. Like making bunk beds and shipping them to grand kids, and so on. ;)

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On 03/07/2017 12:04 PM, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote: ...

...
Personally know, no; I've never even seen an actual Festool product in the wild; there's no dealer within 200 mi...
I did notice in the new Fine Homebuilding issue a cover story in which the builder is using the tracksaw and some other green appears in his shop...he is, however, Editor of the mag so one wonders as with Tom Silva if they were actually purchased retail or are part of advertising budget from Festool or left from evaluation product from earlier acquisition by Taunton...
--


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I did see a Festool track in the wild. A friend was having kitchen cabinet s installed and a new wood floor. When I stopped by the site it was almost all done and there was a Festool track on the counter. So I get the impre ssion that some pros use them on the job. But on the site I saw the job wa s small and done by just a few pros who work together, inside a house. No open outside situation with many unknown people on site.
I agree with what you wrote. Festool is more or less a professional inside the shop tool. Or pros might use it onsite indoors if they are the only p erson or small team working on the job. Or for the hobbyist who wants to s pend as much money as possible. Either for quality or to justify their hob by.
Agree about the Domino. It does something essential, make joints, and is t he only tool able to do this. There really isn't any competition. Every s pring Festool has price increases/changes.
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On Tue, 7 Mar 2017 10:04:14 -0800 (PST), " snipped-for-privacy@aol.com"

Most of the increases are less that 5%. Most a lot less. While I don't like higher prices any more than anyone else, 5% isn't horrible.

Isn't that the whole reason behind the Systainer and the MFT? ...to make the system portable?

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Hey Nailshooter and others, I have seen a few contractors using Festool at my place of business (large research hospital with lots of "fancy" wood walls and plaques, etc) plus a few on the streets. However most of the contractors who come into the labs are using Dewalt, Makita, Milwaukee, etc. I'd say it's about 40 to 1 rati o. Of the few professional cabinet and furniture makers I know five of them us e Festools for all of their sanding work and all of them have track saws an d a few Dominos On the other hand I probably own and use more Festools than Leon and Swingm an, been using them for more than 10 years. My house is paid for, we have no children, I have a nice paying job and my wife has a tidy monthly retire ment pension. I have used my Festools at home refinishing and remodeling t he house and building furniture and "helping" friends get jobs done that I think would have been a bit more difficult -FOR ME TO DO - using other bran d tools. (Your results may have been better) I think if I was a professio nal builder I would have spent my money on Festools because I like how they work and I like how I work with them. Each time I bought a new Festool I thought it was expensive but once used I felt it was money well spent. I have also been fortunate to have sold a f ew pieces of furniture that were made partially and finished predominantly with Festools. I'm happy I got them, that said, I'm going to sleep now. Marc
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On Tuesday, March 7, 2017 at 10:01:36 PM UTC-6, marc rosen wrote:
Hey Marc... long time no see! Hope to see you around more. Leon and I hav e spoken about trying to keep the group going here, and being a little more active. Now if we could only get some of the other old hands back (Swing, Marlow, and a few others...)

use Festools for all of their sanding work and all of them have track saws and a few Dominos
The Domino and the big track saw are the only two Festools I am really tryi ng to figure out how to justify. So far, no luck. I went through my tools at the first of the year to determine the remaining life span, the cost to repair, the capability/reliability of the group. In hand tools and consum ables I am around 2K for the year. I won't have to have this much expendit ure for another few years, but then I am not finished yet, either. Even bu ying carefully chews up the cash fast.

I felt it was money well spent. I have also been fortunate to have sold a few pieces of furniture that were made partially and finished predominantl y with Festools. I'm happy I got them, that said, I'm going to sleep now.

There is indeed a certain joy from using a well made, accurate tool. There is satisfaction out of owning a really nice tool, too. And it is nice to know that they will be around doing as they were designed to do for as long as you want.
I have two circular saws and a 3 amp Milwaukee Sawzall (could be mistaken f or a sewing machine) that are in my "hall of fame". They are all over 40 y ears old, were all on the job for at least 25 years, used nearly daily when I was still wearing nail bags all day long. They are all old school build with cut gears, heavy duty motors, heavy duty triggers with exceptional du ty cycles, polished aluminum cases, and the name, model and serial number r iveted to the tools. They made my living and then some, worked better than their competitors and were the envy of the job site. I coveted and cheris hed those tools like Leon does his Festools, maybe like you do yours. I re member that feeling fondly, although I haven't had it in years.
Robert
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I have a machine that I can't seem to wear out. I don't use it daily but weekly 6 months out of the year and 3 times already this year. I bought it in April-May 1987 and paid $450.00 for it. I hoped it would last at least 10-15 years when I bought it. It's a Honda lawn mower that I bought about 3 months before Bryan was born. :-). A lot of sentimental value makes me hang on to it. The lower part of the handle bar is rusted where Bryan would hang on to as we mowed the yard. He was about 3 and always had sweaty little hands. :-)
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On Wednesday, March 8, 2017 at 8:03:09 AM UTC-6, Leon wrote:

Definitely a Leon Hall of Fame tool!
Robert
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Weighing in on Festool price and value: I only own one Festool -- the older Domino which I bought used for about $300. I couldn't justify buying new as I am just a hobbyist and make more sawdust than anything else. I connec t it to my cheapo shop vac using the $75 Festool hose (not included with th e purchase). That's a lot of $$$ for a flippin' hose. In any event, I use that Domino about 4 or 5 times a year and it is a magnificent tool.
Larry
On Wednesday, March 8, 2017 at 9:13:46 AM UTC-6, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

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