Bad purchase, cheapo table saw

[SonomaProducts.com]

No good wood topics so I posted this minor rant.

I needed a cheap TS for onsite construction on a single personal project. A t Lowes I bought the lowest end Skill for $199. I knew I wasn't buying the best quality but it was almost a disposable purchase in a sense. I just nee ded it for a few months.

Honestly, disposable is generous. Yes I am used to a Saw Stop in my shop bu t this POS was nearly unusable from from the get go.

First noticed an annoying "nuance" that is a design flaw in my opinion but I am sure it is considered a safety feature. If the fence lock is not fully engaged in then sticks up and out at the front rail and won't let you alig n a board to the fence. On construction builds when accurate cuts are "nomi nal" I often mark a piece for width on the leading edge, lay it next to the fence up near a non-spinning blade and bump the fence over until I get the width set that I want, then lock down the fence.

Totally impossible with this fence lock.

However, turned out not to be a problem when the fence lock handle snapped off about the third time (literally) I used it.

I used a vice grip and clamp to lock down the fence after that.

Then I started to rip a 2x4 which was a bit of a task for this little machi ne so I moved slowly. However, as soon as I let up on the feed through pres sure the piece suddenly shifted away from the fence. I thought I had some s tressed wood or really lost my technique or had a bad fence alignment. Howe ver, after I had the same issue while ripping a 1/4 x 2 stop molding I figu red out the "trunnion" is so weak and flimsy the the blade actually starts to flex toward the fence under the least amount of cutting stress. I tighte ned the slip collar at the back where it allows the mechanism to tilt for b evel and locked the blade bevel down as hard as possible and it can still f elx at least a 1/4". It could flex a good 1/2" with factory settings.

Pretty much unusable design unless you feed so slow or you aren't worried a bout a snaking rip line.

I will toss this when the project is over. To trashed by paint spills and j ob site dust, dirt and scratches to return.

[woodchucker]

Too bad you didn't check Craigs list.. I see dewalts all the time for sale. Reasonable too, probably about he same price you paid.

Sounds like a dangerous tool. Right the bastards that make it... (BOSCH) and let them know how well the POC works, and holds up.

Sounds like a lawsuit waiting to happen.

[Leon]

If people don't return this crap they will assume their customer is satisfied. I'd returned it.

[knuttle]

I suspect it is still with in the warranty period I would take it back so they will be aware of the poor quality. Even it they do not give your money back you still have accomplished the purpose.

[Gordon Shumway]

Leon's right, I'd return it too.

If you buy cheap you get cheap. But according to your description this was way worse than cheap -- this was total junk.

[Ed Pawlowski]

What purpose? Letting some clerk at Lowes know you did not like the saw? Doubt it goes past there.

[Leon]

I suspect that with out getting your money back that the complaint will fall on deaf ears.

[Dave Balderstone]

Dunno about Lowes, but where I work anything that is flawed and returned by a customer goes back to the vendor. The store doesn't eat it.

[Ed Pawlowski]

Right, But is will be just another tool on the pile and the customer experience will not get back to anyone that matters.

[none]

Doesn't that depend on how many get returned to the vendor? After a certain return point, they have to do something ~ either fix something in the manufacturing process, come out with a whole new edition of the tool, or completely abandon that tool manufacture.

[clare]

Depends what product, and the source. A LOT of even non-defective merchandise goes through the "hammer" because it doesn't sell and is too expensive to keep warehousing - and if it is a "store brand" it does NOT go back to the manufacturer - particularly if it is Chinese (or other foreign) sourced. You should see all the bycycles and other seasonal goods that end up in the local scrapyard crusher from places like Wallmart, Canadian Tire, or in the old days, KMart (before they left Canada) Defectives are documented and destroyed unless the manufacturer is really concerned and wants samples to analyze.

Same thing happened with faulty automotive parts replaced under warranty. Half the time the "road man" for the manufacturer didn't even want to see the defective parts unless the dealer's warranty numbers were out of line - then they would do monthly "audits" - and you better have ALL of the claimed parts available for inspection. They were then destroyed/disposed of under the auditor's supervision. (to be sure some crook didn't claim them on another vehicle next month)

[Bill]

...

Thanks for the review. Nice to reaffirm money invested in a good saw is not wasted. Sorry about your experience!

Bill

[jloomis]

I use a 10" DeWalt... It is a fairly good, lightweight, portable table saw. I put the 8" Makita Table saw legs on it. A sharp blade is most important. Not thrashing it, is another good idea. john

No good wood topics so I posted this minor rant.

I needed a cheap TS for onsite construction on a single personal project. At Lowes I bought the lowest end Skill for $199. I knew I wasn't buying the best quality but it was almost a disposable purchase in a sense. I just needed it for a few months.

Honestly, disposable is generous. Yes I am used to a Saw Stop in my shop but this POS was nearly unusable from from the get go.

First noticed an annoying "nuance" that is a design flaw in my opinion but I am sure it is considered a safety feature. If the fence lock is not fully engaged in then sticks up and out at the front rail and won't let you align a board to the fence. On construction builds when accurate cuts are "nominal" I often mark a piece for width on the leading edge, lay it next to the fence up near a non-spinning blade and bump the fence over until I get the width set that I want, then lock down the fence.

Totally impossible with this fence lock.

However, turned out not to be a problem when the fence lock handle snapped off about the third time (literally) I used it.

I used a vice grip and clamp to lock down the fence after that.

Then I started to rip a 2x4 which was a bit of a task for this little machine so I moved slowly. However, as soon as I let up on the feed through pressure the piece suddenly shifted away from the fence. I thought I had some stressed wood or really lost my technique or had a bad fence alignment. However, after I had the same issue while ripping a 1/4 x 2 stop molding I figured out the "trunnion" is so weak and flimsy the the blade actually starts to flex toward the fence under the least amount of cutting stress. I tightened the slip collar at the back where it allows the mechanism to tilt for bevel and locked the blade bevel down as hard as possible and it can still felx at least a 1/4". It could flex a good 1/2" with factory settings.

Pretty much unusable design unless you feed so slow or you aren't worried about a snaking rip line.

I will toss this when the project is over. To trashed by paint spills and job site dust, dirt and scratches to return.

[Leon]

Actually I think it will matter if you return it. As Dave mentioned the store rarely eats the loss, it is credited back from the manufacturer. If the store gets enough back they drop the product and the manufacturer certainly sees that.

The return is not going to be a slap in the face to the manufacturer and cause them to stop putting out crap but enough returns will tell them what they need to do to prevent the returns in the first place.

[Leon]

While I agree with both statements, and I kept my warranty parts in a hot location next to our 8, 200 gallon compressors, this kept the scrapping by the rep moving along and him not going anal on the inspection, the big difference here is every one having to refund/credit the complete price of the purchase. Warranty work is certainly as not as big of a sting than the expense of shipping the product, getting paid for the product, refunding the product and dealing with it from that point.

Typically on the goods that do not go back to the manufacturer, those that the retailer eats, are purchased at a significantly lower cost to begin with. The manufacturer does not have to pay for return shipping and the credits, the retailer does not have to worry about getting credit and shipping. The retailer expects to eat a percentage of those type products. They certainly pay attention to the products that they have to issue refunds on as this is more costly in multiple ways than simply scraping merchandise that never sold.

[Markem]

Find a "flooring contractor" at Lowe's and give it to him he can finish it off.

[clare]

Not really. It only FEELS like it costs more to refund at retail than to scrap unsold merchandise. All it REALLY costs is what the retailer paid for it unless it is a commission sales outlet. OK, there is a small portion of the cost of paying the teller, who is paid if that item sold or not - but in REAL dollars - all it costs to refund a sale is the cost of the item - when compared to scrapping unsold merchandise it is the same.

[Leon]

You are missing out on other costs. You loose earned revenue. You have the added expense of having to deal with the returned product. Your employees could be doing something productive like selling vs refunding. Basically you are paying a wage to reverse a sale. If the customer does not return the product you keep the money from the sale, the transaction and effort is final. If the customer returns crap product you loose credibility and trust with the customer.

It would be far better from a business standpoint to never sell the product than to do so and get it back. That is business 101

[clare]

No arguement there - I just said in REAL dollars there is no difference in cost - and the cost involved in refunding the bad product could be saved 2 or 3 times over by never shelving the crap in the first place.

Don't know why retailers insist on selling junk, and American consumers continue to buy it up at a record pace.

[Leon]

LOL, they insist on selling junk because the American consumer buys it.

Oh, and if you can figure out that formula for determining what to stock and what not to stock let me know, ;~) Computers are great for controlling an inventory but you cannot replace gut instinct on what to stock. I have not yet seen a perfect inventory of goods where everything sells.

Most U.S. Americans these days don't have the most common of knowledge's, common sense. They don't realize and therefore can not appreciate the value in buying a quality product. I attribute a lot of this to kids being brought up in a household where both parents working and letting others and the schools instil into their children what little they have to share when herding 30~40 kids at a time.

I think our economy would slow down for a while if one parent would stay home with the kids. The kids would certainly turn out smarter and more productive. Unfortunately our kids have to learn life on their own so to speak. It is a small wonder why gangs are thriving.

Next speaker! ;~)