# Bad purchase, cheapo table saw

On 9/27/2013 11:20 PM, snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote:

On mega statistical populations of an open variable they become equal.
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On Sat, 28 Sep 2013 08:09:12 -0400, knuttle

Only if the distribution is normal (and symmetrical).
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On 9/28/2013 2:04 PM, snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote: ...

A normal (Gaussian) is symmetrical by definition.
When is the arithmetic mean not the average, again?
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Sorry, but I meant that not half the people are above average. Half of a distribution is above MEDIAN, but not necessarily the mean.
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On 9/28/2013 4:36 PM, snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote:

Garrison says all are above average... :)
All I know about indicates that population sample of IQs isn't demonstrable as _not_ following a normal distribution; if that is so then it is so that as well as can be determined there are as many above the mean as below...
I just did a _very_ quick search and didn't find anything convincing that the assumption isn't so; I did find the following abstract --

>

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Of course, if the claim of the "vocal minority" were so, it would lead to a skewed distribution to the right, not the left.
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On Fri, 27 Sep 2013 23:20:51 -0400, krw wrote:

For a normal distribution curve, which applies to intelligence, mean and average are the same. For a skewed curve, they are not.
Also mean, median, and mode are all equal for a normal curve.
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On Sat, 28 Sep 2013 17:27:03 +0000 (UTC), Larry Blanchard

I think you'll find it is. There are more people with an IQ of 120 than 80, and more 140 than 60.

Assuming a normal distribution.
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On Sat, 28 Sep 2013 16:33:52 -0400, krw wrote:

Sorry, you're mistaken. But don't believe me. I quote:
"Many distributions fall on a normal curve, especially when large samples of data are considered. These normal distributions include height, weight, IQ, SAT Scores, GRE and GMAT Scores, among many others. This is important to understand because if a distribution is normal, there are certain qualities that are consistent and help in quickly understanding the scores within the distribution
The mean, median, and mode of a normal distribution are identical and fall exactly in the center of the curve."
The quote is taken from:
http://allpsych.com/researchmethods/distributions.html
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This message was for rec.woodworking - if it appears in homeownershub
they ripped it off.
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On Sat, 28 Sep 2013 17:27:03 +0000 (UTC), Larry Blanchard

Well, I'd presume that's what was meant by "normal curve" and it's true for any symmetric unimodal distribution, not just normal (Gaussian).
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On 9/27/2013 4:20 PM, SonomaProducts.com wrote:

No, I think if I am smart enough to figure something out it should be obtainable by most every one else. I have most often commented in years past, If I can figure it out you should be able to figure it our. If you can't figure it out, I may not be able to either.

No doubt.
Somehow you think your decisions are undoubtedly correct and theirs are wrong; when in reality theirs are just different.
That is entirely possible.

So are you saying that people that are not happy and or complain about the decisions that they have made have in fact made the decision that is correct for them???

O crap, seriously, O crap. I had forgotten all about the beginning of this thread, you buying the inexpensive TS. I in no way was pointing my above comments at you at all. In addition I completely understand the logic of buying a throw away product. It certainly makes sense to not take an expensive tool to a wok site especially if it is not warranted. For that matter I buy crappy products too and for the same reason. Again, my comment was not at all directed at you so please accept my apologies if I in any way came across the wrong way. That was certainly not my intent. Now, I would still return the TS, I personally consider \$200 a bit much to write off, so to speak in my case.

And as much as I like to talk about Festools, that brand was not even in the scope of what I was thinking. I will say that I try to buy a brand I have heard of vs. a no name brand.
Again, I absolutely was not trying to throw in an insult or belittle you at all. My comments were more of a knee jerk reaction by the comment that Claire made,
" "Don't know why retailers insist on selling junk, and American consumers continue to buy it up at a record pace."
And for the record I think a lot of the problems this society has is directly connected with the time we as parents spend with our kids. AAMOF my wife and I both worked when we had our first and only son. Like those that continue to do the same, I saw no problem or repercussions. Then one day I said enough is enough and quit my job and retired. Our son was 7 at the time. I became a stay at home dad and things were pretty tight for a few years. Our son ended up doing quite well and perhaps that would have happened regardless if I had not retired. Either way I know that our son benefited from one of us being a stay at home parent. Unfortunately a lot of kids don't have that option and lack the guidance that a loving parent offers over that of a child care professional.
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wrote:

I generally like to find/buy GOOD used tools. "Experienced" tools, as I call them. They have worked for a few to many years - there is a good chance they will continue to work for a while - and repair parts are generally available. Buy new cheap crap and you have no idea if they will work AT ALL - much-less how long - and generally repair parts are virtually impossible to aquire, because they are basically not worth fixing.

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Aren't you leaving major parts of the solving ability out? I think people can be comparable in intelligence yet have different aptitudes. Aptitudes that can enable someone to solve something while another similarly intelligent person has greater difficulty.
Maybe one person has an aptitude for mathematics while another person might have an aptitude for a science. Possibly one person might possess the doggedness to keep working on a problem while someone else with fairly equal intelligence might give up much more easily. There's all sorts of variables that come into play that may not be related to straight intelligence.
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You have a point there, but I used to make that comment when making a comparison to several that were hired to do the same job. They were hired, because of their experience to do a relatively specialized job. I was hired as a PT, do what ever needs to be done, kin in school. I was often asked by our boss to help, those with the special skills, diagnose a problem.
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Which definitely confirms my point. You brought certain skills to the problem that the specialists might have lacked.
Working as a technical writer, I frequently participated in various projects. While the design experts had all the technical knowledge that anyone could every want, their communications skills were frequently lacking. It was my job to bridge what they were trying to say and make it understandable to the managers and sales people.
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On Friday, September 27, 2013 4:39:50 PM UTC-7, Leon wrote:

ople and I think you are wrong.

t decisions than you would make.

sions but it doesn't make any case at all for why their different decision is not also correct, for them.

mon sense and I buy crappy products all the time. Yes, I do like to complai n about just how crappy something is at times and yes I get surprised somet imes, like this crappy saw and find out it was too crappy to do what I want ed but that doesn't mean I don't have common sense.

nds but I will never likely buy one because I value my cash flow over getti ng 10 years vs 5 years of service for twice the price. I can get results th at work for me from far less expensive devices now and in many cases I come out way ahead because I never use the tool enough to have justified the st upid high prices of some manufacturers.

I wasn't taking offense or thinking you had made any direct assault on me. You responses are all perfectly logical, reasonable and well formed. I was mostly bored and glad that this sparked so many interesting responses.
I think you are 100% correct that most of America's societal problems have to due with errors\omissions in child rearing. I too can speak to my person al association with success in that regard and familial failures that you c ould see coming for years in the making.
Finally, it seems many people here are trying to exhibit deep knowledge of statistical math as equating with their own intelligence, by example; but I only see it as evidence of education in a very easily understood science t hat bores the crap out of me.
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On Fri, 27 Sep 2013 14:20:18 -0700 (PDT), "SonomaProducts.com"

I have a "rule" that I generally follow. Never buy the cheapest or the most expensive of anything (I intend to use for more than 5 minutes.)
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wrote:

Exactly. He answered his own question.

It's not even that simple. You have to carry things that may not even sell. If people don't think there is a very high chance that they'll find everything they need, they'll drive right by your store and go the competitor. You can't just sell 1" screws. You have to sell 1-1/4" too (an example of why I won't go to many mom-n-pop hardware stores).

As Bill Bennett said after the last election, "The voter has spoken, and now he must be punished." ...or perhaps, "Stupid is as stupid does."

I don't think the economy would slow down at all.

Pass...
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Leon's right, I'd return it too.
If you buy cheap you get cheap. But according to your description this was way worse than cheap -- this was total junk.
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On 9/25/2013 7:06 PM, SonomaProducts.com wrote:

...

Thanks for the review. Nice to reaffirm money invested in a good saw is not wasted. Sorry about your experience!
Bill
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I use a 10" DeWalt... It is a fairly good, lightweight, portable table saw. I put the 8" Makita Table saw legs on it. A sharp blade is most important. Not thrashing it, is another good idea. john
"SonomaProducts.com" wrote in message
No good wood topics so I posted this minor rant.
I needed a cheap TS for onsite construction on a single personal project. At Lowes I bought the lowest end Skill for \$199. I knew I wasn't buying the best quality but it was almost a disposable purchase in a sense. I just needed it for a few months.
Honestly, disposable is generous. Yes I am used to a Saw Stop in my shop but this POS was nearly unusable from from the get go.
First noticed an annoying "nuance" that is a design flaw in my opinion but I am sure it is considered a safety feature. If the fence lock is not fully engaged in then sticks up and out at the front rail and won't let you align a board to the fence. On construction builds when accurate cuts are "nominal" I often mark a piece for width on the leading edge, lay it next to the fence up near a non-spinning blade and bump the fence over until I get the width set that I want, then lock down the fence.
Totally impossible with this fence lock.
However, turned out not to be a problem when the fence lock handle snapped off about the third time (literally) I used it.
I used a vice grip and clamp to lock down the fence after that.
Then I started to rip a 2x4 which was a bit of a task for this little machine so I moved slowly. However, as soon as I let up on the feed through pressure the piece suddenly shifted away from the fence. I thought I had some stressed wood or really lost my technique or had a bad fence alignment. However, after I had the same issue while ripping a 1/4 x 2 stop molding I figured out the "trunnion" is so weak and flimsy the the blade actually starts to flex toward the fence under the least amount of cutting stress. I tightened the slip collar at the back where it allows the mechanism to tilt for bevel and locked the blade bevel down as hard as possible and it can still felx at least a 1/4". It could flex a good 1/2" with factory settings.
Pretty much unusable design unless you feed so slow or you aren't worried about a snaking rip line.
I will toss this when the project is over. To trashed by paint spills and job site dust, dirt and scratches to return.
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