You do it professionally. The weekend woodworker doesn't have time to get the use the tools as much as you do. ...and you can depreciate them. ;-)
Depends on where you buy it. I did alright in Amish country. Certainly not cheap but quite reasonable. OTOH, the Stickley was a tad pricey.
nd in nails to build a house. Would he be more gratified or grateful than someone who swung a regular hammer? Or someone who used an air compressor and nail gun?
you got there matters too. Maybe cutting a cord or two of firewood with a handsaw and ax makes someone feel better, more manly, than another who use d a chainsaw. But usually the end result is the only important thing. If you can make a better cabinet or table with expensive tools, then I'd say u se them over cheaper more crude tools. The end result is what matters. No t how you got there.
As I'm sure you know, blanket statements aren't always true. While I, the t ypical weekend woodworker, certainly don't get the *use* out of my tools as a pro, I'm con fident is saying they they have paid for themselves.
Granted, one has to factor in the price of the tools. The $100 circa mid-70 's Craftsman TS wasn't a huge expense. Toss in the fence upgrade and the mobile base and I've got maybe $400 into it over the years. It has served my sufficiently for over 25 years. Those t ypes of numbers are easy to recoup with just a couple of cost saving weekend projects.
Many post-war, and beyond, homes and other projects were built with Craftsman tools. I have a few I use and rely on. Nothing to apologize for.
The guy shouldn't "critique" himself, negatively, no matter what he's doing or his doings. That's not a good approach to any effort. Variation: A critique should be a tool for improvement, not degradation.
If his work is good, it speaks for itself, not necessarily the tools.
Sonny
they call it genetic memory now i think
knew a guy that needed to stay away from tools and machines he would strip threads out and wrench bolt heads off in a way that seemed intentional
on archive.org there are some old woodworking books and one of them describes how to make a spiral baluster or table leg
no machines required
yes doing less with more seems more prevalent today and it is also encouraged to the point where many take to the acquisition of the tools more than they take to the wood and making something
Sorta, I am a legit business to keep the IRS happy. It is not a living wage.
The weekend woodworker doesn't have time to
We I started collecting "good" ww tools in 1979 and on weekends I built our furniture and gutted and enlarged/remodeled our kitchen on weekends. The kitchen remodel in 1990 paid for all of the tools.
...and you can depreciate
I could but when I shut down/quit selling my work I don't want to have to determine the value of my tools and pay the IRS. So I don't write off or depreciate any of my equipment.
I bet. There are a few Amish stores in the Houston area, we bought 2 arm chair and 4 regular dining room chairs, well we had them custom made. CHEAP IMHO, $1550 for all 6. I could not have built as well in the time we needed to have them.
Yeah, that was the brand I was thinking about.
Exactly. If your cost to build saves on the the expense of buying from a furniture retailer the tools will pay for them selves.
I think the "furniture" building is probably a necessity to save enough money to offset the cost of the tools.
+1 +1
been a while since seeing word processing mentioned
in some fields it is a requirement
there is a guy that makes big money weaving custom fabric on a very old loom
he rode out the wave of automation and mass production and kept his niche alive
now he cannot weave fast enough to meet demand but he weaves fast enough to meet his demands
there are many such stories
ound in nails to build a house. Would he be more gratified or grateful tha n someone who swung a regular hammer? Or someone who used an air compresso r and nail gun?
ow you got there matters too. Maybe cutting a cord or two of firewood with a handsaw and ax makes someone feel better, more manly, than another who u sed a chainsaw. But usually the end result is the only important thing. I f you can make a better cabinet or table with expensive tools, then I'd say use them over cheaper more crude tools. The end result is what matters. Not how you got there.
he typical weekend
confident is saying
SWMBO and I slept in the first bed that I made for 35+ years. It was a platform bed that has now been cut down to a twin size for the spare bedroom.
The boys slept in the bunk beds I made until they moved out. They are now split into singles, one here at my house and Dad slept in the other until he passed away last weekend.
The girls slept in the L-shaped bunk beds I made until they moved out. The beds were then given to a co-worker of SWMBO's who repainted them and gave them to a single mom with 2 girls as a Christmas gift.
The girls currently sleep in beds that I made for them after they moved out .
That's 5-8 beds (depending on how you count them) that are still going stro ng in one way or another. That's a lot of savings and doesn't include all the other things that I've not bought from a retailer or had a contractor do over the years.
At least a few quality furniture stores in this area have gone away. Seems less and less people care about quality and think Ikea makes great stuff.
End of the year we will be moving some distance and won't be taking everything with us. It can be cheaper to buy new than pay to have it moved, but some things like our 52 year old bedroom set and a 67 year old dresser are going with is. Perfect condition and would be very expensive to replace.
I happen to like nice stuff. Not always easy.
So, you did miss the time factor. When the guy said doing woodwork to save money was a fools errand, he must have been taking time into account. Of course you can "save money" if you only count the cost of material. Even then, I have seen plenty of items I can buy cheaper than I can buy the materials.
Yes, you do it yourself instead of watching Dancing with the Stars. Time, as I mentioned, is not a factor to you, but probably is to the guy you are disagreeing with.
On 4/1/2018 9:03 AM, Jack wrote: ...
The guy he's disagreeing with tends to disagree as a matter of course.
+1
rote:
ound in nails to build a house. Would he be more gratified or grateful tha n someone who swung a regular hammer? Or someone who used an air compresso r and nail gun?
ow you got there matters too. Maybe cutting a cord or two of firewood with a handsaw and ax makes someone feel better, more manly, than another who u sed a chainsaw. But usually the end result is the only important thing. I f you can make a better cabinet or table with expensive tools, then I'd say use them over cheaper more crude tools. The end result is what matters. Not how you got there.
Nope, didn't miss it, just didn't include it.
"Must have"? You do make a lot of assumptions, don't you? Why don't you ask
*him* instead of telling me what's wrong with my response.Sure, we've all seen crap. The stuff I've built has lasted through decades of rough use and is still going strong. Trust me, I price what I build befo re I start. It's not just the quality that has to be considered. In many cases , just the "custom design" aspect makes purchasing the item cost prohibitive. When a bed or a bookcase can't be bought off the shelf due to installation issues, then you have to add in the cost of a custom design and build.
Besides, it's not just saving based on cost of materials. The whole point of this discussion was whether or not DIY woodworking saved you money when the cost the *tools* are included. I still say yes, it can.
Probably? I thought you said it was a "must".
Keith, or krw was the one that said doing wood work to save money was a fools errand. While it's true he tends to disagree as a matter of course, that is true of almost everyone posting here with RARE exception. Only one I can think of that doesn't is the Electric Comet. He posts new stuff and then everyone else argues about it. Very cool huh?
So, now that I see who made the "fools errand" statement, we can ask him why he said it, and if time was the factor that made it a "fools errand" or some other issue?
True, krw does tend to disagree as a matter of course, just as most everyone here, other than the electric comet, who seldom disagrees, so he gets trashed for lack of punctuation.
Myself, I agreed with Keith if you include time as a factor, and I agreed with the Derby dude if you exclude time as a factor. The rest of you are just pissing in the wind...
I make the assumption because I agree with you, and figure even Krw would not make the statement unless he was including time as a factor. I wasn't talking to Keith so I didn't ask him, in fact, only saw the statement in your post, had to go back and research who actually made the statement you disagreed with because Leon and dpb said he tends to disagree with everyone. I thought it was someone else who rarely posts here, russleseaton specifically, so I was going to disagree with them. Your quoted text made it look like russle said it, not keith.
"Must" as in reasonably expected, not required, because it's the only way I can see anyone, even Keith, could make such a claim. He replies to most everything, so he can jump in anytime he wants, and clarify his statement.
Myself, I don't build to save money, I build because I can, I like to and because I can build specifically to my specs. Money is seldom a factor to me, not now, not ever. Actually because I can is not totally true. Once I know I can build something, repeating it becomes more of a chore, and doing it is more for someone else's satisfaction, like a wife or friend. I enjoy using tools though, always tools, mostly electric ones.
pound in nails to build a house. Would he be more gratified or grateful t han someone who swung a regular hammer? Or someone who used an air compres sor and nail gun?
how you got there matters too. Maybe cutting a cord or two of firewood wi th a handsaw and ax makes someone feel better, more manly, than another who used a chainsaw. But usually the end result is the only important thing. If you can make a better cabinet or table with expensive tools, then I'd s ay use them over cheaper more crude tools. The end result is what matters. Not how you got there.
OK, I guess we are more less on the same page, although one might say that you really are building to save money, especially as it relates to the "my spec s" criteria. That was one of my main points.
SWMBO wanted twin bookcases to flank a window in our kitchen. I was plannin g on building them, although not necessarily to save money, but as it turned out, I didn't have much choice. It turns out the window isn't centered so nothin g off the shelf would have worked. They would have had to have been custom ma de, which would have been cost prohibitive. DIY was the only way to save money.
I was in the same situation years ago when I built a set of bunk beds for m y girls. Small room, partially slanted ceiling. Standard height bunk beds wouldn't have worked. Options: Expensive custom made beds or DIY to save th at expense.
Anyway, we're good.
No, when I disagree I state my disagreement. Unlike others, I rarely write anything to hear myself talk.
No, I'm not including the time factor. The average person will never pay off tools by making furniture. If he's buying tools just to save money, it'll never work.
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