anyone work for Lowe's or Home Depot?

No stretch at all. The ACLU fights the SAME BS that went on in the 18th century. Against the same "conservatives."

I could provide links from lots of places, but what's the point. I could limit it to life long republicans, but what's the point.

With NO tickets or accidents, my two commercial vehicle policies increased 25% two weeks before the 800% announcement. And I had to pay the usual $150 brokerage fee as well on top of the new premiums. They are gouging thieves.

Gerry

Sorry, Brian, I'm not trying to p*ss you off, but maybe you should adjust the direction of your anger. Instead of getting angry at the transit workers, maybe you should be asking why you don't get "subsidized health care" and why taxpayers "don't get the same".

TPTB make way too much money from keeping Americans away from public, affordable health care. The last figures I read in 1991 said that Americans would save /over/ /$67/ /billion/ /a/ /year/ by going to a universal, public health care system.

Get angry at those private (and government) parasites instead of people at the bottom of the food chain trying to better their conditions.

Gerry

Canada has a universal health care system. There are Canadians who come to USA and pay cash for health care as the waits are so long in Canada.

I'm guess Canada is trying to save too much money with their universal health care system.

Universal health care would probably work in the USA if congress funded it properly. If health care is nationalized, politicians will always look at cutting health care as way to save money.

Brian Elfert

Ask the Canadians what they think about universal public health!

"G.E.R.R.Y." wrote:

Brian Elfert responds:

The waits are long in Canada, or so I'm told, on some kinds of "health" care: cosmetic plastic surgery and similar procedures. Voluntary surgery may often take a long time, but my understanding is that there is little or no back-up in necessary procedures.

Probably not. The Canadian government, like all governments, has its problems and inherent injustices, but I have not heard that many bad things about Canadian health care.

You mean the way they look at underfunding defense requests?

Charlie Self "A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine." Thomas Jefferson

Why should any health care system pay for cosmetic plastic surgery unless required due to accident or injury?

Isn't cosmetic platic surgery always a cash only type of health care option?

Brian Elfert

Well, I think, as a Canadian, I can sum it up reasonably accurately (some would disagree, of course):

a) Most Canadians think our health care system is broken b) The huge majority of Canadians think it is vastly better then our neighbours to the south.

Canadian politics are night and day from American politics. I get sucked into reading these diatribes on politics here; just can't help myself. It is sort of like watching an accident. In Canada, we generally expect out politicians to be somewhat corrupt, a little dim and a few other things. Afterall, if they were smart and corrupt, they would be CEOs. Better pay and more power. Basic Canadian voting strategy, outside of Alberta: a) Vote for the lesser evil. There is no good guy. b) If you cannot determine (a), vote for the guy least likely to screw things up. This is probably the most common case. We strongly reward pollies who do the minimum possible to stay in power. c) If you cannot determine (b), vote for the current guy. Better the devil you know then the demon you don't.

I don't know WTF they are up to in Alberta. That is a foreign country.

Most canadians are baffled at the outraged fuss 'cause a polly fooled around with an intern and lied about it. We wouldn't expect him to be honest about it. Nor would we expect him to be faithful. Most canadians are extremely baffled that people still go on about it. Out of sight, out of mind, that is the canadian motto. Politicians who espouse excess religious ideals are looked upon with a lot of suspicion, even by those of the same religion.

Canadian political discussion: Guy A) "Government sucks, eh?" Guy B) "Yeah." Guy A) "Watch the hockey game last night?"

But, mess with the health care too much; you are out the door faster then you could blink. It is sacred.

Well, as a bona fide Canadian, I can only speak from a selfish point of view. I'm glad we have the health care that we do have. My health issues have mandated my using our health system extensively and I figure that there's dozens and dozens of other countries where if I'd have been a resident, I would have died years ago. Here, I'm alive and thriving with my own business. I might well have done the same down in the US, but my understanding is that getting full health assistance in the US means that you're too poor to pay for any of it, so then it's free, otherwise you're on the hook for vast amounts of money.

Of course, if you've got the cash, then better/faster medical assistance is at hand, up here or down there, but that's the same with most everything in our North American society.

Brian Elfert asks:

Well, I dunno. A few years ago, a guy in Roanoke was trying to collect money, while castigating his health insurance company for not paying, for experimental treatment for his wife's cancer. I can understand the desparation that drives such a desire, but with absolutely no known chance of success, should all the other policyholders be forced to bear that expense?

As I recall, he did collect the necessary $150,000 plus from the community, but the treatment didn't work, or if it did,it gave her six months of extra life (possibly extra).

But I'd guess some cosmetic surgeries are more apt to be covered than others, as you say, starting with accident and injury types and going on to those that might improve quality of life. I might better have said "non-life threatening" conditions take longer to treat.

Just as they do in the U.S. in many parts of our "voluntary" pay system.

But it probably takes longer to line up something like non-critical knee replacement surgery, joint clean-up for arthritic conditions (which some surgeons don't approve of anyway), and similar surgeries, while treatment for a broken leg is going to be immediate.

I'd actually like to find some more information on this and may go do so. It doesn't much matter to me (Medicare and VA cover my needs pretty well for the moment), but my curiosity is piqued. I am more than slightly certain that Canadian nationalized medical care gets a bad rap which I do not hear when I question Canadians. But maybe they haven't been in the position of using our marvelous U.S. health care system, where an insured knee surgery costs $1800 or less, and the hospital, surgeon and gas passer bills the uninsured patient a total of almost $9000. And the surgeon mildly screws up the procedure, so the joint has to be re-done 4 years later.

Charlie Self "A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine." Thomas Jefferson

Paul Kierstead responds:

Yes, well there are those of us who feel pretty much the same way down here. It's the Catch 22, though, that enough emphasis on that kind of thing created enough expense and stir that people will be screaming about the results, such as they were, for decades, when, of course, the basic thing was a guy lying about screwing around so his wife and kid wouldn't find out...in his case, that he was still at it.

Politicians who espouse any religion at all except in church make my skin crawl, whilst my eyeballs start searching to see if that pin stripe is covering red skin and horns with a tail curled up the back of the jacket. I guess cowboy boots will do to cover the cloven hooves.

One could wish.

Charlie Self "A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine." Thomas Jefferson

Or any other.

Charlie Self "A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine." Thomas Jefferson

A friend in Vancouver BC needed a back operation. He could barely walk and was in a lot of pain. It was considered non-critical and he was put off at least three times over a two year period. He was contemplating coming to the US and paying himself. Last time surgery was scheduled in Canada he died before the date. He said this was common in the system.

I'm insured and have no worries of that. Good family coverage in the US is $550 to $900/month. Kind of pricey for a low to medium wage earner that does not have it as a job benefit. Ed

... snip

Most of us in the US wouldn't have cared either except that said politician lied about it while under oath while testifying in a trial accusing him of having sexually harrassed another woman. Funny thing was that prior to that time, sexual harrassment was a huge cause celebre among his side of the aisle, leading to huge lawsuits, the resignation of a couple of politicians on the other side of the aisle, and serving as a rallying cry against "evil CEO's and others in authority" using such harassment to dominate their subordinates among that side of the aisle until *he* was accused of said act. Then the same people who were ready to "burn the witches" when they were CEO's were all of a sudden throwing their backs out flip-flopping around to come to his defense.

Not even in a legal proceeding?

A politician LIED?!?!

OH MY GOD !!!!!!!!

some, maybe. certainly not all. what I saw most of from the liberal community was disgust and a sense of betrayal.

Certainly the ones that would have been expected to have expressed outrage in the past were guilty of this, in particular, those over in the NOW gang who were lambasting and crucifying corporate figures and politicians like Bob Packwood were not only silent, but actually vocally defending the actions. What was most telling was that those who had a voice and the ear of the media (as well as the media itself) did not express that disgust or sense of betrayal, but rapidly fell in line with, "it was only sex, everybody lies about sex" and "it was his private life, it shouldn't matter".

I certainly believe that others who had previously supported that administration but did not have a public voice did have the feelings you indicate above. It would not surprise me that rank and file voters and others would have felt this sense of betrayal. What was disappointing (or confirming, depending upon one's viewpoint) was the public support, the media push that villified those who were pursuing the perjury charges, and lack of public condemnation.

Watch out for the corporate/media propaganda! In the last few weeks, I have undergone blood work, cardiogram, carotid echo cardiogram, CT scan, and followup GP dicussions on test results. ALL of this work was done virtually immediately. The ONLY delays were in scheduling around my weird availability. Don't believe all you read.

Corporate America wants no part of public health care. The corporate world up here are lobbying trying to get their hands on all that creamy taxpayer money. Remember, the two biggest sources of untapped MEGA bucks are health care and education. Some corporations must get all moist just dreaming about them.

Gerry

I can recall very few times I ever heard a fellow canadian differentiate between "life" and "court". In all those cases, as far as I can recall, it was that a defendant would be expected to lie in court, as after all the whole point of pleading not guilty is to keep your ass out of trouble. Note that I am not saying they felt that all people lie in court, just that you can't believe what a defendant says. And that you would be a moron for not lying if you can get away with it. Beating "the man" (especially taxes) is somewhat of a sport in Canada, particularly in some areas like the province I was brought up in (Newfoundland).

People in Canada (or at least an awful lot of them) really did think that it was just sex. And it is still at least somewhat taboo to probe politicians private lives too closely here, unless the politician makes a point of it. Most keep their private lives, including religion, family, etc, very private and that is respected for the most part.

Pretty funny. One of our politician hopefuls, Stockwell Day (party leader who couldn't shut his mouth when he should and got the boot from his own party) was, by Canadian standards, extreme right wing. He went the the US of A to meet Newt and hopefully swap notes and get some synergy. He talked in management speak a lot when he wasn't sounding like an idiot. Anyway, when he returned he looked somewhat in shock and didn't say much at all. I expect Newt thought this "right-wing" canuck was a pinko-commie.

This might give you some idea of why Dubya's "approval" rating in canada approaches zero. The mouse often measures such things when he lives by an elephant. The party in power (Liberal, but actually centrist in position currently) had to threaten its members to keep them from bad mouthing dubya (they kept calling him a moron amongst other things) cause it was making weak relations even worse.