What do you base this on?
Some of the other plane makers bought the tooling and amortized it 50 years
ago. Lee Valley is a relative newcomer and has a lot of tooling and
engineering costs to recoup. Planes don't sell in the volumes of
screwdrivers at Home Depot or Canadian Tire. LV is very competitive with
L-N from what I can see.
His ability to run someone else's business affairs from afar and without facts.
"If a politician found he had cannibals among his constituents, he would
promise them missionaries for dinner." H. L. Mencken
Actual cost? The amount of money that leaves the hand for a handplane...?
I don't think LV is supremely competetive from what I can see of price and product,
and availability. They just do what they do, and have what they have. Both brands are
very different designs.
The 112's for example, the LN is $81 more than the Veritas, both made of ductile
iron. The Veritas is a great deal considering the quality and color of the Kunz 112 @
$89 (they need tuning from what I have read, and look goofy as hell). The St. James
Bay 112 is $250 finished. So, Veritas is there with the right price and top quality on
But I'm not going to pay > $175 < for a LV #4, because I have paid $32 for a
Stanley #4 type 19 in mint-minus condition, cost worth the tuning. $7.99 for another
exact same plane as quite well used, still perfectly good after tuning it. I want to
Veritas #4 planes in borg and tool stores for a nominal $79 off the shelf, as an
contrast to my previous statement about online, LV-only prices.
My real point is common availability, regular prices that are easy to consider, and a
wide distributership to stores and borgs @ that fine Veritas level of quality and
prescision. Currently, of all things, OSH now stocks Footprint tools! Planes, chisels,
and other tools. Footprint got an awesome break, that's because they made the right
business descision. They are attempting to amortize at a much smaller size than LV-
Veritas. The #5 costs $49.95, reasonable for the tuning work.
If the Lee Valley corp. decides to go bigger with plane production, make some socket
chisels (wink) and "amortize" the entire function, they and all woodworkers would
be better off. Lie-Nielson is coming close because of their actual* distributorship,
keeping costs pretty much the same, get rich time! Lee Valley is on the perfect verge
edge of being able to replace Stanley as amortized production for distribution. They
can do it. So sorry to sound like such a block-head, I got me a cranium full of ADHD
fight through here... no offence intended.
Not very good. You have no idea of the cost of production do you? Cost of
tooling? Engineering? The do have a bearing of final cost, as the the
ability to charge what people are willing to pay.
But the cost of the new planes has nothing at all to do with or in
relationship to a
Stanley #4. If you bought one for $32, good for you, enjoy it. What you are
saying is that you bought a good used plane and therefore all planes must
sell for a price close to it. I paid $2000 for my '62 Corvair and I'll be
damned if I'm going to pay $20,000 for a new car.
You CAN buy a brand new Stanley 9 3/4 for $35.
as an extreme
It may be possible if the volume warrants it. When you go for larger
volume, you must also spend a lot of money for additional tooling,
inventory, and in the case of HD and Loses, you may even have to invest in
thousands of dollars in coumputer software for billing and payment. They
dont just send invoices and checks like most other place.s This holds true
for many of the big stores and manufactureres. We used to deal with
Frigidaire. We would have had to spend over $10,000 for software. Do you
think the borg shoppers will pay for and appreciate a LV plane? "The Buck
Brothers for much less looks the same honey, get the blue one"
consider, and a
I'm not familiar with either OSH or Footprint so I cannot comment. They may
or may not be related to the quality and volume of the Veritas line.
Perhaps, I've not done any market analysis so you may be 100% on target or
you may be full of crap. Do you know what the potential market is for
planes in North American? The world? Cite some figures and we can talk.
perfect verge /
You must hae some figures then. What is the break even point on the
tooling? What is the expected volume in the 2005 and 2006 fiscal years?
Let me see. You and your fellow Lee Valley groups posts dozens of flames and I
kick you pathetic asses so now you want to get 'reasonable'.
You set the tone shithead.
Too late to start whining about it now.
Post proof that on any given day in the last year that Americans didn't pay less
than Canadians for Lee Valley tools and then we will talk.
But seeing as Canadians get gouged regardless of the exchange rate you can't do
Because I'm an active woodworker. You? All you've ever done is whine and
complain. I've offered tips for products, given suggestions for techniques
and presented URL's to products.
Your turn. Why are you here? What do you contribute to this news group?
On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 08:35:33 +0000, email@example.com
(Robert Bonomi) wrote:
Couldn't you have laid one "false-to-fact" on him?
Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite
Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999
...... Now, it is a _fact_ that the value of the Canadian Dollar, vs the
Isn't it the US dollar that is losing value not the CDN dollar rising?
So the prices for the US customers should be rising which won't benefit
Robert in any way. The CDN price won't change.
Anyway, I'm Canadian and I hope Robert isn't giving us a bad name down
south. It appears he is our village idiot.
Jeez. Only one? We've got thousands. Or is his motto "So many villages, so
little travel time"?
"It is inaccurate to say that I hate everything. I am strongly in favor of
common sense, common honesty, and common decency. This makes me forever
ineligible for public office." H. L. Mencken
That is a distinction without a difference. <grin>
When you're considering =relative= values in _two_ markets, the effect
of one currency rising in value is exactly identical to the other currency
falling in value.
The 'futures' markets price in US$, for a fixed 'face' amount of the 'foreign'
Rob Lee said that their _costs_ are in CDN $, so it doesn't matter whether
the CDN $ is strengthening, or the US$ is weakening -- CDN prices would
But, yes, with the relative strengthening of the CDN dollar vs the US dollar,
(or the weakening of the US$ vs the CDN$) 'U.S. dollar denominated' prices
would be expected to rise.
And in the running for the _provincial_ title, as I understand it. <grin>
I also notice he wasn't bitching for the 1st half of the year, when the
relative value of the dollar was _rising_, and Lee Valley didn't adjust U.S.
prices _downward_ to compensate. Obviously he thinks that their 'screwing the
U.S. customers' -- in exactly the manner in which he presently claims that Lee
Valley is 'screwing their Canadian' customers -- *is* acceptable.
Which establishes beyond any doubt that his claim is *not* based on 'a matter
of "ethics"' but pure, selfish, self-interest.
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