Wooden French Windows & FENSA

[archie2000]

Hi,

I had a conservatory built in 1998 and had existing wooden frenc windows between the house and the conservatory. I removed the doors i

2002 but left the frame in place.

I am now selling the house and I obviously need to put wooden frenc windows back. I bought exterior grade french windows with toughene glass panels and hung them myself in the original doorframe. The hous buyers solicitor is now requesting a FENSA certificate for th installation.

I could get one from the local authority, but it wil take 21 days, an we are trying to complete the house sale by next week , but my questio is:

Do I need one for wooden single glazed doors that have replaced simila ones

-- archie2000

[Guy King]

The message from archie2000 contains these words:

Just tell him you ain't got one. He's only jumping through hoops. If the client really wants the house they're not going to let something like that stand in their way.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Agreed. Tell him you will pay 175 quid indemnity insurance to cover any little lack of documentation that might delay the sale.

[archie2000]

I have just been in contact with the firm who supplied the doors an

they say that they never register wooden glazed doors with FENSA, onl double glazed units.

So the certificate is not applicabl

-- archie2000

[Stuart Noble]

AFAIK, if the original frame is still there, it counts as a repair and is not notifiable.

[Dave Liquorice]

Thats a very good hook. B-)

I was thinking why bother putting any doors back. One assumes the OP was happy without doors so sell as is (was) and let the new owner worry about the FENSA "problem". Also doesn't FENSA only apply to external doors/winows? These french doors are now internal between the house and conservatory...

[Stuart Noble]

Either way it should be enough for the buyer's solicitor

[Brian Sharrock]

Do not take this advise! A 'conservatory', to meet the _law_; must be 'closed-off' from the rest of the house - otherwise it's an 'extension'. An 'extension' needs to meet several insulation requirements. Conservatories obviate some of these requirements but must meet certain others to be excused. A door -from a house- into a 'conservatory' must be an external-quality door. If these doors are not extant then I wouldn't be surprised if other regulation had been over-looked. Why not ask your local authority's Building Control Officer for their opinion ... ?

[archie2000]

The doors are external grade and I have fitted locks, etc. That ha been deemed ok. The whole issue is around the need for a FENS certificate.

Archi

-- archie2000

[Guy King]

The message from archie2000 contains these words:

Tell 'em to bugger off.

[Christian McArdle]

You can't get one, as to be external these days requires double glazing. The best you can hope for is a letter from the BCO agreeing that it was a like-for-like repair and not subject to regulation.

Christian.

[archie2000]

Well, I had to bite the bullet and arrange for UPVC double glazed door

to be fitted instead of the wooden french windows.

Spoke to my local provider who I bought the french doors off, and h was of the opinion that the BCO would deem them as not suitable an tell me to replace them with FENSA approved doors. Anyway, he has frame and doors that got slightly damaged and was turned down by customer that will fit into the doorway between my lounge an conservatory (at a much reduced price). He will also provide th required FENSA certificate. Damage is barely noticable (fuss customer) so I am going with that option. Also they can be fitted b the end of the week rather than waiting 2 weeks for new ones to b made.

Thanks to everyone who posted on this thread for the advice an comments.

Archi

-- archie2000

[Christian McArdle]

You could always fit DG units to your existing wooden SG doors. If the doors are too thin for conventional units, you might still get away with stepped units. Also, check with the BCO as the SG units might be allowed under "repair".

With both of these options, you aren't left with hideous plastic doors in your house.

Christian.

[Owain]

But the OP's selling the house anyway - this way he can take his nice wooden French windows with him to the new place :-)

Owain

[Brian Sharrock]

Christian; the OP stated that s/he had removed the doors between the house and a conservatory and was querying the requirement for a FENSA certified 'Exterior grade' door to be replaced. If it's _truly_ a conservatory then it _must_ be totally exterior to the house - otherwise it's an _extension- . Any BCO and/or solicitor worth their salt (salary) would require that documentary evidence was provided that an external-grade door (insulation and security) compliant door was extant. [FENSA is a self-funding association of 'glazers' that can self-certify the installation]. The provision may be in your words "hideous plastic doors "; but it _is_ the law. [you don't _have_ to use a FENSA organisation - but you must be able to satisfy the BCO].

[Christian McArdle]

All I'm saying is that the OP may have the right to have an exterior door that complied with the regulations at the time that the frame was installed, so the existing wooden door may be OK as it might count as a "repair".

Christian.

[Brian Sharrock]

And all I'm saying is that - according to the OP - there wasn't a door there at all! Let this be a lesson - don't ignore the Building Regulations (demounting an external door) and moan about being found out. If the original doors had been extant the question wouldn't have arisen! Full marks to the purchasers solicitor for demanding compliance.

I'm slightly sensitive ; having forked out loadsamoney to the Council for planning permission and Building Control approval fees ... I get upset when Estate Agents show pictures of non-compliant 'Conservatories' - with open access to the house - , illicit staircases - no spindles that'd pass the 4" (aka 100mm) ball test ... etc. etc. If _I_ have to comply with the reg's (and Two-jags' "Kyoto" requirements) ; why shouldn't the OP?

[Guy King]

The message from "Brian Sharrock" contains these words:

Quite possibly, but I shall be removing the doors between the house and the conservatory and replacing them with nice wooden draught-proofed double glazed doors. Because these will be home made they won't get a FENSA certificate. Unless of course I manufacture my own. Which if I ever sell this place I might well do.

[Brian Sharrock]

Why did you not quote the part where I had stated that one doesn't have to utilise a FENSA fee-paying member ? The requirement is to provide proof that the 'new' doors meet the Building Regulations. FENSA members are 'trusted' to provide self-certification services and assure the BCO that the requirements have been met. You will, presumably, assure the BCO that your doors meet _all_ the requirements? Will a Building Notice be required?

[Guy King]

The message from "Brian Sharrock" contains these words:

BCO not involved - it's a conservatory.