UPVC windows into existing timber frames?

[Peter]

Just had a quote from Shaw's Brighton for three upvc windows to replace ail ing timber sash windows in my terrace house. About £550 each for whole window, about £450 for fitting two opening sashes into each of the ex isting boxes and cladding sill and exterior timber.

Thinking that it would be nice to retain timber sill / architrave etc. insi de rooms. Good plan or not? First thought was it sounded like a bodge but n ot sure.

Was never a fan of upvc but with increasing age less a fan of the work need ed to bring the existing timber sashes up to scratch; some rot, two sashes need replacing, two of the windows were badly replaced about 15 years ago. Being at the rear they don't really get seen. Also I am on a hill near the channel coast facing West.

[Dan S. MacAbre]

The double glazed units (they are available) for fitting into traditional frames are thinner, I think.

[Tim Streater]

Timber sill etc will be retained even if you have all new uPVC - the new frame butts up against the existing wood from the outside. That's how it worked here, at any rate.

uPVC doesn't need painting and also doesn't need to look like uPVC. You can have wood-effect if you want but more importantly you can have a profile that looks more like a traditional window. Ask about ovolo profile and equal sight-lines. We got these last two and haven't regretted it.

[Tim Watts]

There is a special type with a tiny vacuum gap (1mm sort of depth) between 2 panes of glass, held apart with tiny balls.

It's made by one of the major manufacturers - poss Pilkinton

[Dan S. MacAbre]

I did a quick search for 'thin double glazing' (a bit obvious :-)), and there seems to be loads of stuff out there. It might generally be called heritage double glazing, or that could just be a brand.

[Weatherlawyer]

iling timber sash windows in my terrace house. About £550 each for who le window, about £450 for fitting two opening sashes into each of the existing boxes and cladding sill and exterior timber.

side rooms. Good plan or not? First thought was it sounded like a bodge but not sure.

eded to bring the existing timber sashes up to scratch; some rot, two sashe s need replacing, two of the windows were badly replaced about 15 years ago . Being at the rear they don't really get seen. Also I am on a hill near th e channel coast facing West.

They are going to clad the bits you want to keep? So why bother. Have them replaced but get better quotes. If the frames are good replace them yourself go to a glazier with the sizes and get him to make you stepped or rebated double glazed units with the pa ttern you take him.

Should be something like 100 quid per sash on average. (Blind guess as I've not seen them.) The worst that can happen is that you will fall on you ars e first time and lose whatever you paid. having learned to get it done by a pro you will always know that you did have a go at diy.

You won't fail if you get a competent friend that is reliable to help.

[Peter]

Sorry was not clear enough - the "into existing" quote is for new double gl azed casement sashes in their own frame - the existing sliding timber sahes would come out and the 'nib' at the front of the box sawn off flush - box including sill, header and internal bits staying.

The frames are mostly sound - the choice, if I go upvc at all, is between c omplete replacement and letting the new units into the existing frame which would have the advantage of keeping timber internal sill etc but I am not sure of other pros and cons not having seen this done.

[harry]

iling timber sash windows in my terrace house. About £550 each for who le window, about £450 for fitting two opening sashes into each of the existing boxes and cladding sill and exterior timber.

side rooms. Good plan or not? First thought was it sounded like a bodge but not sure.

eded to bring the existing timber sashes up to scratch; some rot, two sashe s need replacing, two of the windows were badly replaced about 15 years ago . Being at the rear they don't really get seen. Also I am on a hill near th e channel coast facing West.

Fitting UPVC windows in timber frames is a very bad idea. You lose one of the the main benefits, ie maintenance free.

You can get sealed double glazed unit to fit existing. Two sheets of glass, one slightly larger then the other. The small glass fits inside the rebate, the large one fits the rebate. You don't see them much now but your local gazier will fix you up. (Stepped uni ts)

You lose the benefit of the draught proofing of uPVC windows

[Dan S. MacAbre]

I've always expected good draught-proofing from the uPVC windows I've had fitted, but always been disappointed. And I've never bought cheap stuff. I console myself with the thought that ventilation is a good thing :-)

[charles]

because of the character of our house (1911) we had new wooden frames and windows fitted. Frames had done about 90 years. On the non-exposed side of the house the frames were fine and the same company fitted new sashes.

[Tim Streater]

Then it's not been fitted properly and you should complain.

[Dan S. MacAbre]

I did the first time. Thereafter, I just thought it's par for the course.

[Weatherlawyer]

glazed casement sashes in their own frame - the existing sliding timber sah es would come out and the 'nib' at the front of the box sawn off flush - bo x including sill, header and internal bits staying.

complete replacement and letting the new units into the existing frame whi ch would have the advantage of keeping timber internal sill etc but I am no t sure of other pros and cons not having seen this done.

Draught proofing is a matter of the wood or pvc closing tight, or, failing that having furry felt strips to close against you can make any window drau ght proof with Vaseline and clear silicone mastic.Give one side of the meet ing surfaces a polish with wax and a swirl of detergent mould release and c lose it against the other side after applying a thick layer of silicone to that half.

Clear is better in my opinion. Don't let it come into contact with the glas s or you will never get it off experiment with letting some dry on a bottle of jam jar. It reacts with glass.

Get a ladder to inspect all the frames and scrape off the old mastic where is is sealed to the walls clean thoroughly and apply suitable silicon to th e edges do it on a dry day.

[Weatherlawyer]

iling timber sash windows in my terrace house. About £550 each for who le window, about £450 for fitting two opening sashes into each of the existing boxes and cladding sill and exterior timber.

side rooms. Good plan or not? First thought was it sounded like a bodge but not sure.

eded to bring the existing timber sashes up to scratch; some rot, two sashe s need replacing, two of the windows were badly replaced about 15 years ago . Being at the rear they don't really get seen. Also I am on a hill near th e channel coast facing West.

Learn the parts of the windows that matter of making a seal The frame fits in between the reveals or wall edges onto the cill and below the lintle or head. If they are in good condition you only need to repair the seals aroun d the frames.

Sometimes the seal is made of a bead of mortar sometimes just a run of mast ic or silicone. Again the price is pennies for fiddling with it. Can we hav e a pook at any photos you have?

If they are soft and porous ot rotten you need them patched or replaced. Yo u are still talking pennies here; maybe shillings for ladder hire and a fri end to catch you if you fall,

[Capitol]

My economy PVC windows still have perfect draught proofing after 35 years. The aluminium patio doors are not as good.

[Tim Streater]

No it aint. Mind you, we avoided trickle vents too, that may have something to do with it.

Yours leaking between the frame and the wall or around the openers?

SWMBO's cousin had new uPVC doors put in at the back. I noticed that with the doors shut, air was leaking around them (she hadn't noticed). I pointed this out and the fitter came back and adjusted them. Properly adjusted, when you crank the window/door handles shut, it pulls them in and seals all around.

[Dan S. MacAbre]

Between the opening unit in its surround, and the rest of the frame. I don't care about draughts much, since I don't feel the cold at all (in fact, I like it), but I'm such a light sleeper that I find it lets too much sound in. Especially the dawn chorus at around 4 in the morning.

[Tim Streater]

Each to his own :-)

We moved in here in December. Lovely day but within a week two feet of snow and howling northerlies. That's when we found that the wooden-framed DG was crap as it leaked air like the windows were open.

Getting new windows all round shot straight to the top of the list.

[tim...]

I got mine to install a new wooden sill, the quote for a replacement plastic one was ridiculous 30 pounds per linear foot (or something equally stupid)

tim

[harry]

I fitted all my own, sourced locally. I thought this was a DIY group? Sill costs next to nothing.