3 years ago we bought a derelict terraced house as a money making venture, and renovated it. Now it is all completed, and we have a sale going through. (The likely profit is about the same as I would've made if I'd had a second job working evenings and weekends on a building site for 3 years (which is pretty much the truth!). It's a decent profit and was fun to do, but hasn't made us millionaires)
The problem:- We have a sale going through. The buyer's solicitor has asked for a FENSA certificate for the double glazing. I'd not heared of one before today, so don't I have one. I gather that being a diy-er I should have applied for building regs approval before commencing the work which would have had the same standing as a Fensa cert. But how can I resolve the problem now? Perhaps I can get building regs approval now, although that'd really delay the sale? Or I can knock money off the sale price and let the buyers sort it out if they are agreeable? There is an easy solution???
It's Saturday AM. I wish I'd got this darned letter on a weekday so I could've asked my solicitor what the options are!
First question is, do you know if your windows are compliant with all the regs that they should; ie did you look into this before fitting them, or not?
If not, then you're *probably* OK with stuff like use of K glass, separation of panes etc as most window forms only sell regs-compliant kit these days; however fire regs are something else; for example most rooms without external doors need windows which are a 'means of escape'; ie you can climb or be pulled out of them in the event of a fire. Then you may have issues if your window sills are too low... plus other things I can't remember off the top of my head.
Check the building regs at
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(or )
- unfortunately the regs for windows are spread over dfferent 'Parts' relating to glazing, protection ftom falling, insulation, fire regs etc etc....
================== You can apply to your Local Authority for a 'Regularisation Certificate'. Apparently this can be obtained for any completed works after 1985.
The 'Fensa' certificate is not applicable in your case because it only applies when windows are supplied and fitted by a Fensa registered company. A Fensa registered company is supposed to carry out work to full compliance with all regulations and to notify the LA when the work is finished.
My single experience with a Fensa company suggests that they might not live up to expectations. I was obliged to tell the company which fitted my windows to remove certain windows and re-install new windows which complied with Regulations.
Your best bet is to read the document(s) suggested by another poster and when you've made sure that your windows comply fully, apply for the 'Regularisation'.
Alternatively you could tell the prospective purchaser that the windows were fitted as DIY and that they're open to any inspection. Offer to remedy any defects.
A dangerous game - it's known as fraud. Is he going to risk some neighbour telling the purchaser later on - 'ooh yes, I remember when he did those windows, it was the same time our Frank had his piles done, back in 2002'
Alternatively, these days most windows - certainly uPVC ones - are stamped with the manufacturing date which would be a bit of a giveaway if push came to shove.
There are big penalties for sellers who provide misleading info (lie) to purchasers.
On 24 Sep 2005 03:19:29 -0700, a particular chimpanzee named snipped-for-privacy@aol.com randomly hit the keyboard and produced:
You say you renovated the house three years ago. Exactly when were the windows installed? If it was before 1/4/02, then an application wasn't required. If you had engaged a contractor do this work before the 1st April, and he had completed before the 1st July 2002, then an application wasn't required.
If it was after these dates, you can apply for a Regularisation certificate, provided that you're sure the replacement windows comply with the requirements. Are they double-glazed units at least 24mm thick with low-E glass ("K-glass" from Pilks or similar)? If not, is there some other constraint which would have prevented you fitting such windows, like your building is listed, or in a conservation area (always assuming you applied for and were granted Listed Buildings consent)? Providing that everything is kosher, the process shouldn't take more than a week.
For replacement windows, all the Building Regulations are concerned with is the heat loss. Provided that the other requirements are not made any worse than they were before the windows were installed (such as; if the window had an opening large enough to escape out of, and the new window doesn't), you're not required to 'upgrade' them in these respects.
I couldn't lie about the date even if I was a good liar, and wanted to, since I purchased the house after June 02 and did all the renovations after that, and it would soon become obvious to the purchaser, particularly once they met the neighbours.
If a fire escape window is required to every room, then there's a problem. There is a good fire escape window in the first floor rear bedroom, so if it is just per floor, I'm ok. I did take advice from the window manufacturer regarding where K glass and toughened glass must be used.
I'll have a second go at navigating the Building regs site in a moment
- not the easiest site I've seen...
I'll phone the Building surveyors on Monday, discuss Regularisation certificate, and work through it with him. Thanks I feel a bit calmer!
================= This is a digest of basic regulations concerning ventilation which you could use for preliminary checking. It's derived from the official document as I understand it. I used it to persuade my supplier / fitter to act reasonably!
Ventilation must be at least 5% (1/20th) of the floor area in which the window is located. This must normally be achieved by means of openable lights. There are possible alternatives to openers such as a 'stack' but this alternative is rarely suitable.
It is recommended that at least one such opener should be at high level to prevent draughts causing discomfort. Suggested level is 1.75 metres / 6 feet.
There should be provision for some kind of 'trickle' ventilation and this can be achieved by the use of latches which can safely lock an opener in a partly open position.
In an upper / first floor room there must be provision for escape through an openable window in the event of fire. The width of the opener must be at least 450mm / 18". This usually means an opener at cill level rather than a top opener.
When replacement windows are fitted they must be at least equal in terms of ventilation to the original windows which they are replacing - i.e. there must be no worsening of the ventilation.
Your house, like >10 milion others, probably has no paperwork for all sorts of things. I'd tell the buyer the house is sold as is, it is upto the buyer to survey and search to their own satisfaction, and buy or not buy. And I wouldnt discuss it any further. No way should one knock money off over a non issue.
Still, the solicitor is earning from it.
If it turns out its not 100% paperwork wise, theres a slim chance the future owner might possibly need to sort the paperwork out, but its very unlikely.
Hugo is that definitely correct, regarding the Means Of Esacpe issue? I hesitate to take issue, considering your profession! but I thought provision of fire escapes was an important part of the regs, ie bringing old houses up to a safe standard as windows get replaced.
(I once had a BCO compell me to remove an almost brand new replacement uPVC window, and replace it [again!] with one featuring an MOE).
It certainly IS an issue as more and more people are finding out. The vendor is likely to find that out with every prospective buyer. Better to bite the bullet and get it sorted with the BCO. Then make a point of the fact that it is fully compliant as far as recent work is concerned.
I think this is an occasion when the head in the sand attitude is likely to prove costly. AFAIR the case that started solicitors asking these question cost £50K plus to settle.
=============== The danger lies in concealment. Buyers are entitled to honest answers.
However, vendors can't be expected to know precise details of all work done to their houses especially if work was done before they bought the house. It's certainly best to be honest and if there is any doubt about material changes / modifications then purchasers should satisfy themselves by means of a proper survey.
On Sat, 24 Sep 2005 16:13:11 +0000 (UTC), a particular chimpanzee named Dave randomly hit the keyboard and produced:
Well, the requirements for 1/20th floor area and at least part of the opening above 1.7m were there to stop people being poisoned by gas lighting, so a long time. 'Trickle vents' have been in since (IIRC)
1985. Means of escape in case of fire for all first floor rooms since
2000.
There seems to be a lot of water-muddying going on in relation to the OP. As long as the windows are no worse in terms of the requirements apart from the thermal insulation ones, they comply.
On Sat, 24 Sep 2005 17:39:07 GMT, a particular chimpanzee named Lobster randomly hit the keyboard and produced:
IIRC, your case was that of a change of use (converting two houses into one?). Many of the requirements here (incl. MOE) are as stringent as for a new-build.
Not really, buyers solicitors do raise it, but upon being told not to be sily the buyers in almost all cases forget they ever raised it. As said, millions of houses dont have such paperwork, its only a panicky buyer that would walk away.
if this is straightforward, maybe so. If it means replacing windows, maybe not the way to go.
one case means highly unlikely to prove costtly. And, more to the point, if you say nothing and leave it to the buyer to decide, you can't be had for misdescription. The buyers solicitor is potentially liable if they fail to ask, hence they ask. How important it is to buyer and seller is another matter.
Theyre not entitled to any answers. It is the sellers choice whether to answer questionnaires. We live in a litigious society, errors do get made with these forms, sometimes issues exist the seller could not have known at sale, and sometimes one party claims something that wasnt your work was, and decides to pursue it, rightly or wrongly. Thus filling such form in only buys you legal liability.
The buyer can determine what theyre buying without you holding their hand.
The question is not what are solicitors asking, but what will buyers buy. Few will walk because theres no fensa paperwork. The occasional one might.
On the contrary, the safest route is to say nothing, and leave it to the buyer to determine and decide.
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