Windmill nonsense.. Tilting at Wind mills

I'd still have to cross 30" of stone wall and downstair's chimneys to reach an outside wall (which has conservation status and so probably not possible to put light terminals on it, also on a main road so would get dirty very quickly - the windows do).

If I thought I would still be living in this hell hole in 8 years time I would kill myself.

(Mind you, I thought that eight years ago...)

Owain

The trouble with that view is that the goods we purchase come primarily down to energy cost and human time cost. IOW as energy prices rise, so do the costs of the energy saving equipment. Regrettably this wont make every measure affordable. What it will do is make currently affordable technologies pay back much more, thus start to be used when now we dont bother.

What will imho, as it already has done over time, make more and more be done is the ever falling real cost of goods, due to more manufacturing efficiency, sleeker business models, and increasing wealth.

Perhaps its nothing but an economic decision anyway. With wind and nuclear sources, the carbon emissoins question isnt that relevant, our energy use level simply comes down to economics. (politics too of course)

NT

Not at all. You can read up on cri if you wish

Both theses situations are easy to address. You just dont want cfl :)

NT

When I was offered al cable it was aluminium core with copper coating, and there was as much cu as there was al, so it wasnt plated. I understand the problems with al cable, but have never heard any convincing problem with this 50/50 stuff. It seems the logical choice to me. Once people get past the simple minded 'well aluminium is bad' and look at it a bit more thoughtfully.

NT

It's limited by the ratio of maximum absolute temperature to the minimum absolute temperature.

The maximum is limited by the yield point of the materials used in the boiler.

The minimum by the available cooling water temperature. This depends on the ambient temperature and humidity if using cooling towers or the sea/river temperature if not.

I remember the demolition of Ferrybridge B cooling towers about 15 years ago. It was stated that the cost of maintaining them greatly exceeded the losses in efficiency (2%) when the river was hot, like this time of year, when the station (now closed) was little used.

Hmm. While Wikipedia is not a primary reference, it does say the following things about CRI (Colour Rendering Index) and CCT (Correlated Colour Temperatue)

CRI

"Although an objective measure, the CRI has come under a fair bit of criticism in recent years as it does not always correlate well with the subjective color-rendering quality for real scenes, particularly for modern (e.g. fluorescent) lightsources with spikey emission spectra, or white LEDs. It is understood that the CIE is looking at developing newer color-rendering performance metrics."

CCT "The Kelvin system for lamp description works well for an incandescent light bulb. Since these lamps are very nearly black body radiators, their chromaticity coordinates land directly on the Planckian locus in the CIExy color space. Fluorescent lighting is not incandescent and presents a new challenge. Fluorescent lamps are made using myriad combinations of phosphors and gases. The illumination that they produce is almost never described by a point in color space which lies on the Planckian locus.

The question then becomes how to describe the quality of light from a fluorescent lamp. The method used is called the "correlated color temperature", which a method for assigning a color temperature to a color near, but not on, the Planckian locus. The above plot shows lines crossing the Planckian locus for which the correlated color temperature is the same. Nevertheless, the colors are not the same, and the method gives only an approximate specification of a particular color. Due to this shortcoming, the rated CCT of any fluorescent tube does not completely specify its color."

Sid

True, but although people don't like being dictated to by govt, they don't like being dictated to by economics either!

People make choices all the time that don't make economic sense, buying a 4x4 to drive in town, filling their kitchen with halogen spots, having their heating at 25°C in winter.

If energy prices rise fairly gradually without a sudden step change, there might even be a 'boiled frog' type situation where people pay more and more for energy without considering changing anything.

cheers, Pete.

snipped-for-privacy@care2.comtyped

You're right of course, but I also don't want to change my light fittings.

Even cheap cfls would represent a substantial outlay if I were to replace 20 lamps.

Some of the bulbs here have not been changed since I bought the house last century.

snipped-for-privacy@mail.comtyped

Coo! Just wot I were tryin' to say but betterer edumacated. Fanks!

You're welcome. It all came from Wikipedia, which is often a good step towards finding better sourced information. Please cross check any facts with other independent sources before taking action on the information offered, 'though - Wikipedia is not guaranteed to be correct - and by its very nature is guaranteed to be incorrect at times. It's usually a good 'starter for 10' 'though.

Cheers,

Sid

Maybe it's only bad with wire-nuts :-)

Owain

On Wed, 05 Jul 2006 09:16:30 +0100 someone who may be The Natural Philosopher wrote this:-

Siemens are claiming a net efficiency of 46% at the moment, rising to 51% in the future, according to

Only if nuclear power emits zero carbon dioxide. However, despite the incorrect claims of the likes of Bernard Ingham, it does emit carbon dioxide. While it emits relatively low amounts of carbon dioxide compared to some forms of generation, it emits more than some other forms of generation.

On Wed, 05 Jul 2006 08:21:39 +0100 someone who may be The Natural Philosopher wrote this:-

I'm sure the heating industry will beat a path to your door if you have developed the perfect thermostat. The problems with the various schemes of control are well known and, although things are improving, perfection is still a long way away.

How a perfect thermostat in say the hall reacts to heat emitted in a bedroom/office I'm not sure.

The thermostat is only one part of the heating system and no part of the house in this respect.

There are no capital and running costs of domestic boilers and their fuel supplies?

That is why I was careful to point out the areas where electric heating has cost advantages.

On Wed, 5 Jul 2006 11:00:21 +0100 someone who may be Helen Deborah Vecht wrote this:-

Sorry, I'm not a party politician and so don't bullshit people.

What sort of bulbs in what sort of fittings?

However, to me it sounds like a lot of bulbs in total and lit.

David Hansen typed

Well, what I mean is that the hall would be right for a cfl. Light quality is not critical and lamps are on for quite a long time.

I'm not really sure what you mean by the above anyway. This light fitting takes 3 small globes. Cfls are too long. I need good illumination as my balance depends on it, due to my MS. Dropping the light intensity makes me move even more slowly.

The lounge is two rooms knocked together. Each room has a central ceiling fitting which takes 5 standard 40w bulbs, with bayonet caps. These are switched from the lounge doorway. Each room also has two wall-mounted fittings, each of which takes 2 standard 40w bulbs; these are switched at the wall and seldom used.

Maybe it does, but I cannot safely enter a poorly lit room and would hate to sit and read by ghastly cfl light.

I don't have a TV and am careful to switch off lights when I leave a room.

On Wed, 5 Jul 2006 20:54:50 +0100, David Hansen wrote (in article ):

Possible, but are these forms that allegedly emit less economically viable and scalable to present and increasing future demand?

On Wed, 5 Jul 2006 22:25:05 +0100 someone who may be Helen Deborah Vecht wrote this:-

Then at the moment the only way to have compact fluorescent bulbs there is to replace the fitting.

You better stay away from JCBs then :)

NT