Wiki: Save Energy

Yet another...

Energy is ever more expensive, and its use has become a hot topic politically. Here are various ways DIYers can save energy.

=3D=3DDraughtproofing=3D=3D Draughtproofing is an easy minimum cost way to save energy in old houses. Self adhesive foam strip, profiled rubber strip and brush strip are all effective. Low cost self adhesive foams tend to have short life, but still save money. Draughtproof all 4 edges of doors, windows and letterbox.

=3D=3DInsulation=3D=3D =3D=3D=3DCavity wall insulation=3D=3D=3D Make sure you've got it, if you have cavity walls of a suitable type (rattrap bond and rubble walls should ''not'' be cavity filled.) Grants are widely available. The increased cost to heat a house for several years without [[insulation]] is greater than the cost of the insulation.

=3D=3D=3DLoft insulation=3D=3D=3D Lots of it. Loft insulation is an especially effective way to achieve payback.

Where goods are stored in the loft, boxed items trap air and thus have some insulating value.

=3D=3D=3DSolid wall insulation=3D=3D=3D Non-cavity walls can have [[insulation]] applied to the inner or outer surface. The cost and work involved are of course greater than cavity fill.

There are 3 ways to fit interior insulation. # Timber battens, insulation between, plasterboard, skim with plaster # Solid sheet insulation, plasterboard, skim # Solid sheet insulation with a hard cement front surface, skim

Exterior insulation usually consists of solid sheet insulation, with EML screwed in place over it, then rendered with cement mortar. Insulating render is an alternative option with lower insulation levels.

For the financially struggling, its possible to insulate walls for =A32 where appearance doesn't matter. Cardboard or narrow card boxes brushed with borax solution are held in place with wallpaper adhesive.

=3D=3D=3DUnderfloor insulation=3D=3D=3D Some people retrofit insulation under suspended timber floors and concrete floors. Both involve taking the whole floor up, so are only occasionally practical. The saving can be significant over time, if the floor had to come up anyway. If not, there's a lot of input to pay back.

=3D=3DWindows=3D=3D =3D=3D=3DDouble glazing=3D=3D=3D Retrofitting double glazing usually fails to pay its costs back. Also it incurs the additional cost (and energy use) of replacing failed sealed glazing units.

=3D=3D=3DSecondary glazing=3D=3D=3D

  • can pay back
  • can cause rot of timber windows
  • Acrylic secondary glazing eventually deteriorates, unlike glass.
  • Secondary glazing starts at about =A36 a window using plastic film glazing. This lasts a couple of years if not abused, but is very vulnerable to kids.
  • Polythene sheet costs less than =A31 a window, but isn't clear and doesn't shrink flat with a hairdryer. It does not look good.

=3D=3D=3DSash windows=3D=3D=3D Sliding sash windows can be draughty. A few types of draughtproofing can be fitted.

A favoured method is to remove the sliding sash, route a groove around its perimeter and insert a thin brush strip. This works well and stops rattles too, though it does make the window slide less freely. One alternative product used in the same way is a simple flexible plastic strip.

The cheapest method is to apply sellotape all along the gap where sash meets frame. Don't forget the gap where the 2 sashes meet.

=3D=3D=3DLeaded lights=3D=3D=3D Lead is an excellant thermal conductor, leaded windows have lots of it, and the design of these windows often leads to draughts. Secondary glazing dramatically improves the performance of these windows.

=3D=3D=3DCurtains=3D=3D=3D Heavy curtains help reduce heat loss at night.

=3D=3D=3DMetal windows=3D=3D=3D The steel frames conduct heat out of the building. Secondary glazing is beneficial.

If a steel window doesn't close properly, excess paint build up is often the cause. Crittall steel windows were only designed to tolerate upto 3 layers of paint, and most are now old enough to have a good deal more than that on them.

Damaged windows that don't align properly can be draughtproofed by applying silicone, placing polythene sheet over the silicone to prevent it sticking to the opening sash, and closing the window. The sealant is thus moulded in situ to block any gaps.

=3D=3DHeating=3D=3D =3D=3D=3DRoom stat=3D=3D=3D There are some heating systems around with no room thermostat! if you can't find a room stat, you need one.

=3D=3D=3DBoiler=3D=3D=3D Some old boilers used cast iron heat exchangers. These exchangers are horribly inefficient and should be replaced.

The cost versus saving case is less clear cut for the more common old boilers with pressed metal exchangers. Modern boilers often have much shorter lives and higher repair costs, offsetting quite a lot of fuel saving.

Boiler efficiency and maximum heating system output both depend on the temperature of the primary heating water circuit, which is usually controlled by a thermostat on the boiler. Reducing this temperature reduces max system heat output, but improves efficiency. The thermostat on the boiler can be turned down in milder weather, and up again in cold times.

=3D=3D=3DProgrammable room stat=3D=3D=3D These save money if you use them to heat the house to a lower temp for part of the day. if you don't, they won't save a thing.

=3D=3D=3DTRVs=3D=3D=3D TRVs improve the room by room thermal control, shaving costs. Despite the name they are only partially thermostatic, and offer improvement rather than complete control. Heating systems should have a TRV on all radiators except one.

=3D=3D=3DTurn radiators off=3D=3D=3D Turn off radiators in spare rooms etc

=3D=3D=3DRoom programmers & thermostats=3D=3D=3D Controlling the timing of heating or the temperature indiviually for each room trims waste further. However its not trivial to fit such control systems, and not many DIYers do so.

=3D=3D=3DElectric heating=3D=3D=3D This costs much more than mains gas to run.

=3D=3D=3DClothes=3D=3D=3D Wearing clothes saves energy. Wearing additional clothes saves more energy. It seems obvious, but does get overlooked.

=3D=3DLighting=3D=3D Replacing filament with [[CFL]] saves money - not everyone likes them though. Ignore the claimed equivalents on the packet, 4x is a more realistic rule of thumb, with 3x for reflector types.

Where appearance doesn't matter, eg for garages, linear fluorescent is the most energy efficient of all domestic lighting types. The longer the tubes, the more efficient.

Halogen downlighting is a particularly energy hungry type of domestic lighting. Energy use can be cut by a fator of 10x by changing to CFL lights, not using them as downlighting.

The appearance of halogen can be retained to a fair extent by using 5w or 10w halogen spotlights and adding concealed CFL or linear fluorescent lighting.

A lot of 500w halogen outdoor lighting can have the bulbs replaced with 150w ones.

[[Dimmed PIR Lights|Dimming PIR fittings]] waste thousands of pounds. See [[Dimmed PIR Lights]]

A switchbank can much reduce lighting cost in many cases.

Dimmers only work with filament lamps, and produce little saving compared to full brightness, and waste energy compared to switching less total bulb power on.

=3D=3DKitchen=3D=3D =3D=3D=3DDishwasher=3D=3D=3D Packing the machine full before use reduces frequency of run and total energy use. Its quite common to see machines run when they could have twice as much in them and still clean everything. A full machine costs half as much per week to run, and the machine lasts much longer.

If you use a high temperature wash, a lower temp wash program saves energy.

=3D=3D=3DWashing machine=3D=3D=3D

40C washes use less energy than hotter programs, but machines do need at least an occasional hot wash to clean the machine. Pongs result otherwise.

Washing below 40 isn't recommended, muck builds up and pong eventually takes over. Buying a new machine because you used cool washes is not energy efficiency!

An occasional boil wash with citric acid helps keep the machine clean, prolonging is useful life. For maximum effectiveness, when the water in the tub has reached close to boiling, switch machine off and leave overnight. Complete the wash program in the morning.

Users of economy 7 type schemes may find the washing machine too noisy to run at night on half price leccy. This is often solvable by fitting noise reduction to the machine.

=3D=3D=3DTumble drier=3D=3D=3D Most of the energy use of tumble driers can be avoided with this [[Clothes Dryer]]

Drying clothes on a line outdoors costs nothing in summer.

=3D=3D=3DOven=3D=3D=3D Put foods to be cooked in without preheating the oven. The food's ready a couple of minutes sooner, and you lose 5 minutes of on-time. I've never found any downside to this.

=3D=3D=3DHob=3D=3D=3D Use lids on pans, turning the gas down very low. Once water is at boiling point, its impossible to make foods cook any faster. Its common to see people using over 10x as much gas as is needed to cook the food.

Note that all the food must be covered by water or some won't cook so quickly. Cooking on high heat causes the water level in the pan to fall, resulting in slowed cooking if anything less than high heat is used to maintain steam above the water. This leads some to mistakenly think if they reduce the heat their food wont cook as quickly.

On high setting, a lot of the flame's heat passes right by the pan. On a low setting, heat transfer is efficient.

Glass plates can be used on pans that don't have glass lids. They make the food visible, and are the right shape to return the steam condensate back to the food. Glass pans make it easier to see that the food is still boiling, but not too vigorously.

Sometimes 2 foods can be cooked in the one pan together.

=3D=3D=3DMicrowave=3D=3D=3D Vegetables can be microwaved instead of boiled, giving better flavour, less loss of nutrients, quicker cooking and much less energy use. Add

1tb of butter & water to the veg, cover, shake to mix, and nuke.

Soups that were traditionally cooked for an hour plus can usually be cooked much quicker in the microwave, with better flavour. Also many soups only need some of the ingredients cooking, and others (eg tinned ingredients) can be added after the cooking.

Potato skin should not be eaten if cooked in a microwave, as it doesnt get enough time to fully neutralise the toxins.

A microwave & convection combi cooker can cook with both methods at once. This can produce oven like results with a fraction of the cooking time and energy use.

=3D=3D=3DExtractor fan=3D=3D=3D Kitchen extractor fans can throw a fair bit of heat away. They reduce the sticky grease that's caused by boiling food on the hob - so there's no point using them in winter when only the oven's on. Use the minimum fan speed required to remove most of the steam.

Using low hob power with lids eliminates most of the kitchen grease formation.

=3D=3D=3DKettle=3D=3D=3D Old non-jug kettles waste energy by boiling more water than is often needed.

Boiling the exact amount of water needed reduces energy use. This is hard to judge but easy to measure. A kettle uses around half as much energy as a microwave if the exact amount of water is boiled.

=3D=3D=3DBulk cooking=3D=3D=3D If keen to save energy, cooking lots of servings at once and freezing uses less energy per meal. The savings are even greater with baby meals, which are pricey in jars, considering the content.

=3D=3D=3DLow energy cooking=3D=3D=3D A few methods can be used by people really determined to save energy.

There are many hot dishes that require little or no cooking. Short order cooking is the name of the art of creating good quality dishes very quickly.

Haybox cookery produces slow cooked meals using only enough power to heat them up.

Thermos cooking is the modern version of the haybox. Soups can be put in a thermos uncooked, and be ready by lunch time. The small capacity of thermoses is a major limitation though.

=3D=3D=3DFreezer=3D=3D=3D On some freezers a non-obvious fault makes the compressor run continuously. This increases electricity consumption to in the region of =A350-=A370 a year, or upto =A3200 a year for freezers decades old. At =A3500-=A32000 per decade its cheaper to buy a new one. Its caused by partial loss of coolant, and can happen at any time to any freezer.

Occasionally people have stuck polystyrene foam insulation over the outside of their freezer to cut energy consumption even further. This does work, and is sometimes considered by people running a very small offgrid power system.

Old freezers from the 1970s consume enough extra power to cost more even if they were free.

=3D=3DElectricity meter=3D=3D A power monitoring meter makes people aware of what is using how much, and this usually results in painless energy reductions. There are 2 types of meter. One indicates total house power consumption. The other monitors the power use over time of one appliance or one lead. Savings usually pay for the meter cost.

=3D=3DComputer=3D=3D A desktop PC may use 70w and its monitor 30-70w, versus a laptop's 20w (approx variable figures). If a machine's in use 24/7, the difference between the 2 is around =A350 per year. Whether its worth moving over to a laptop depends on the laptop cost.

Desktop computer power supplies often have poor efficiency due to cost cutting. High efficiency power supplies for use in desktop machines are available.

=3D=3DTV & Monitor=3D=3D LCD monitors use less power than CRTs. However its not enough saving to offset the cost of replacing them, or the embodied energy.

Plasma TVs are power hungry, LCDs use far less.

=3D=3DStandby power=3D=3D Much political mileage has been made of appliances consuming power while on standby. All consume some, but the quantity and cost of this power is in most cases tiny. There are occasional exceptions, and if found such items can be switched fully off when not in use.

=3D=3DHot water=3D=3D Ensure your cylinder has either a foam coating or a fitted jacket. With jackets, check for any gaps.

Check for dripping or dribbling taps.

Hot water cylinders are usually fitted in restricted spaces, creating a space around the cylinder where more insulation can be added at no cost. Packaging peanuts, bubble wrap, jiffy bags, polystyrene foam, and even screwed up paper all trap air and provide insulation. Ensure you don't cover the electrical lead to an immersion heater.

=3D=3DShower=3D=3D Use a lower water flow. Turn off booster pumps. If necessary, turn water off while soaping.

link to tenagers taking forever [how to stop teenagers taking forever in the shower]

=3D=3DBaths=3D=3D

4-6" of water was standard war time practice, and it does the job.

=3D=3DBatteries=3D=3D Batteries are highly inefficient ways to store energy.

Using rechargeable batteries gives a good saving on a lot of battery appliances. A =A310 set of NiMH batteries with charger can achieve

500-1000 charge cycles, replacing anything up to 1000 batteries. That's a cost equivalent to 1p per dry battery.

Rechargeables aren't well suited to all tasks, as they tend to self discharge when sitting unused.

Running battery items from a wallwart wipes out almost all the run cost of batteries.

=3D=3DPrices=3D=3D Finally, check youre getting the best deal on power.

=3D=3DSee Also=3D=3D

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NT

Reply to
meow2222
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Confucius say "woman who cook potato's and peas in same pot most unhygenic".

What about pressure cookers? Much more efficient for lots of stuff.

Reply to
The Medway Handyman

I would dispute this. Especially since boiling potatoes does not destroy toxins, either, so if this is true, you shouldn't eat boiled new potatoes with their skins on.

You shouldn't eat green potatoes, not because the green colour is poisonous (it isn't - it's cholorophyll) but because potatoes that have been exposed to light have increased levels of solanine and chaconine.

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Reply to
Huge

Energy is ever more expensive, and its use has become a hot topic politically. Here are various ways DIYers can save energy.

It is now that companies supplying it are out to make big money! With the use of energy saving products this has really hit the profits of some companies so they have increased the prices to meet their projected income targets. Also to keep shareholders happy.

==Draughtproofing==

Causes condensation.

==Insulation== ===Cavity wall insulation=== Make sure you've got it, if you have cavity walls of a suitable type

If you do not have all your walls inspected this can lead to major damp problems as the insulation retains moisture!

===Loft insulation=== Lots of it. Loft insulation is an especially effective way to achieve payback.

Not that good at saving money is it! Payback is in about 10 years.

Where goods are stored in the loft, boxed items trap air and thus have some insulating value.

No that is wrong! Why do modern houses have vents that take outside air in to a loft then - as part of building regulations?

==Solid wall insulation===

Waste of time and effort. Causes huge redecorating costs.

===Underfloor insulation===

Waste of time and money.

==Windows== ===Double glazing===

Well worth the money! With new glass coatings it keeps a room warmer.

===Secondary glazing===

  • never pays back
  • will cause rot of timber windows
  • Acrylic secondary glazing eventually deteriorates, unlike glass.

This is a waste of time.

===Sash windows===

Fit double glazing.

===Leaded lights===

Fit double glazing.

===Curtains=== Heavy curtains help reduce heat loss at night.

No they don't, unless you glue the edges around the window frame! Air circulates around them.

===Metal windows=== The steel frames conduct heat out of the building. Secondary glazing is beneficial.

Wrong! Heat is conducted from the building, a bit of plastic sheet willnot stop that.

==Heating== ===Room stat=== There are some heating systems around with no room thermostat! if you can't find a room stat, you need one.

Not always, it depends on the heating and insulations used.

===Boiler=== Some old boilers used cast iron heat exchangers. These exchangers are horribly inefficient and should be replaced.

No they are not, I would challenge you to put your hand in a heat exchanger and fire up the boiler.

===Programmable room stat=== These save money if you use them to heat the house to a lower temp for part of the day. if you don't, they won't save a thing.

WRONG!

===TRVs===

They are of no benefit, it depends how your heating is zoned, your insulation methods and where thermostats are.

===Turn radiators off=== Turn off radiators in spare rooms etc

NO! This can mean that you get condensation.

===Room programmers & thermostats=== Controlling the timing of heating or the temperature indiviually for each room trims waste further. However its not trivial to fit such control systems, and not many DIYers do so.

That is a stupid idea and very expensive to fit.

===Electric heating=== This costs much more than mains gas to run.

Probably not now after the 220% increase in British Gas costs over the last 5 years. Customers are stupid enough to stay with them!!!

===Clothes=== Wearing clothes saves energy. Wearing additional clothes saves more energy. It seems obvious, but does get overlooked.

No it doesn't, if I put my coat on now it will not cost me any less for gas.

==Lighting== Replacing filament with [[CFL]] saves money -

It doesn't because the companies INCREASE prices to meet projected income figures. For example, I used to pay 9p per unit for electric, two years later it is 14p per unit! That is because demand fell and companies still wanted the same income.

==Kitchen== ===Dishwasher===

Water and a sink! Saves a fortune.

===Washing machine===

40C washes use less energy than hotter programs, but machines do need at least an occasional hot wash to clean the machine. Pongs result otherwise.

Washing below 40 isn't recommended, muck builds up and pong eventually takes over. Buying a new machine because you used cool washes is not energy efficiency!

Oh how wrong you are again, mine washes at 30degrees perfectly well.

==Tumble drier=== Most of the energy use of tumble driers can be avoided with this [[Clothes Dryer]]

Drying clothes on a line outdoors costs nothing in summer.

You are really sounding thick now!

===Oven=== Put foods to be cooked in without preheating the oven. The food's ready a couple of minutes sooner, and you lose 5 minutes of on-time. I've never found any downside to this.

I would but mine will burn the food doing this. That means wasted energy and cost of replacement.

===Hob=== Use lids on pans, turning the gas down very low.

Don't use gas. Putting lids on can cause foods or sauces to be too concentrated. It also causes condensation problems.

Sometimes 2 foods can be cooked in the one pan together.

No they can't.

===Microwave=== Vegetables can be microwaved instead of boiled, giving better flavour, less loss of nutrients, quicker cooking and much less energy use. Add

1tb of butter & water to the veg, cover, shake to mix, and nuke.

Completely ruins the flavour. A microwave used 10 times the power of an electric ring, so it's cheaper to cook them as normal.

Potato skin should not be eaten if cooked in a microwave, as it doesnt get enough time to fully neutralise the toxins.

No one I know has ever been poisoned or killed.

A microwave & convection combi cooker can cook with both methods at once. This can produce oven like results with a fraction of the cooking time and energy use.

No it doesn't!!!!! Look at the values.

===Extractor fan=== Kitchen extractor fans can throw a fair bit of heat away. They reduce the sticky grease that's caused by boiling food on the hob - so there's no point using them in winter when only the oven's on. Use the minimum fan speed required to remove most of the steam.

Using low hob power with lids eliminates most of the kitchen grease formation.

WRONG, it tkes steam away and reduces condensation and mould.

===Kettle=== Old non-jug kettles waste energy by boiling more water than is often needed.

How do you know how much water I want!

===Bulk cooking=== If keen to save energy, cooking lots of servings at once and freezing uses less energy per meal. The savings are even greater with baby meals, which are pricey in jars, considering the content.

RUBBISH RUBBISH RUBBISH!!! No wonder people are fat today.

===Low energy cooking=== A few methods can be used by people really determined to save energy.

Why bother?

===Freezer=== On some freezers a non-obvious fault makes the compressor run continuously.

All fridges and freezers are fitted with a thermal cut-out, so this hasn't happened since the 80's.

==Electricity meter== A power monitoring meter makes people aware of what is using how much, and this usually results in painless energy reductions.

No one supplies them in the UK.

==Computer== A desktop PC may use 70w and its monitor 30-70w, versus a laptop's 20w (approx variable figures). If a machine's in use 24/7, the difference between the 2 is around £50 per year. Whether its worth moving over to a laptop depends on the laptop cost.

So you are not taking everything in to consideration. For example, a so-called energy saving bulb will cost less to run but far more to buy!

Desktop computer power supplies often have poor efficiency due to cost cutting. High efficiency power supplies for use in desktop machines are available.

Name them ! switching mode power supplies are used which are extremely efficient compared to an equivalent type built using transformers - if anyone was mad enough to try it.

==TV & Monitor== LCD monitors use less power than CRTs. However its not enough saving to offset the cost of replacing them, or the embodied energy.

*NO* they do not use less. My 32" LCD uses 180Watts, my old 28" CRT uses 130W. The same for a 37" LCD, it uses 200Watts.

Plasma TVs are power hungry, LCDs use far less.

Wrong again, they do NOT.

==Standby power==

That depends what you are using. My TV uses 1Watt on standby. My doorbell transformer uses more than that and is on 24hours!

==Hot water==

I use a combination boiler, no need to store hot water and waste money.

==Shower== Use a lower water flow. Turn off booster pumps. If necessary, turn water off while soaping.

Lower water flow means a hotter shower.

==Baths==

4-6" of water was standard war time practice, and it does the job.

No it doesn't, my bath is nearly 3ft deep and gets filled.

==Batteries== Batteries are highly inefficient ways to store energy.

No they are not or they wouldn't be used. You can recharge normal batteries now. You have been able to for the last 15 years!

==Prices== Finally, check youre getting the best deal on power.

Oh you're quick.

==See Also==

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COMPLETELY OUTDATED and bad advice, it must be from WIKI!!!!

[[Category: [[Category:

NT

Reply to
James R

Welcome back Mr Drivel.

NT

Reply to
meow2222

Suspended timber floors can be insulated from below if there's sufficient 'crawl space'.

Draughtproofing gaps in floorboards with plastic wood, hardboarding over floorboards, and using a good underlay under carpet, can also be effective.

It can be almost unnoticeable if kept taut - occasional re-shrinking may be required - and can be extremely useful for the coldest three months of the year.

But heating the room in use may be cheaper than heating the whole house

Keeping windows clean maximises daylight and solar gain.

Doesn't work with bread, or things that really do need a *hot* oven.

Use the oven to full capacity; the lower shelf can be used for milk puddings etc.

It's even cheaper if you take your charger to work and recharge batteries on the work's electricity.

Owain

Reply to
Owain

It is not Drivel but an inbred relative of his who found his way here via x-postings.

Adam

Reply to
ARWadsworth

The old problem - taking chargers to work doesn't save energy - even if it saves costs. What are we trying to discuss here? Economics or physics?

Rod

Reply to
polygonum_on_google

Actually, it _does_ work with bread, if the bread is put in before it's fully risen. It will do its final rise as the oven warms up. Baking times will need to be adjusted, though.

Sheila

Reply to
S Viemeister
[...] Interesting reading.

Re sashes ... I've had 15 year's life from Acrylic secondary glazing on some large Victorian sash windows. Been assuming it'd cloud or yellow but surprisingly the stuff remains crystal clear. (Wickes)

Reply to
john

Huge, should one worry about chip shop chips which are made from potatoes loaded into the rumbling machine (which might well remove the green) a sack at a time, and then chipped without further inspection?

Derek

Reply to
Derek Geldard

It's a genetically-engineered super-Drivel, resistant to all strains of common-sense or reality.

Reply to
Steve Walker

One thing, Dave, about pressure cookers that mithers me.

Now don't get me wrong I think they are great, you cook several things in one pan for a shorter time.

One very popular make, the first that probably comes to mind if in the UK ( as you are ), used to be made of aluminium - maybe they still are.

Now do I remember reading it years ago about using aluminium pans and the possible links to altsimers (sp) in later life or is it my imagination? Hope it is. I seem to have this fixed in my mind somehow but for years we often used a pressure cooker, and still have it, though rarely use it. We use stainless steel pans now most of the time but we don't have an alternative pressure cooker.

I'm 57 now and of the age where such things are important to me - though if the link is real it maybe too late after years of use. My daughter is only 20 though so would welcome any Internet links on the subject.

Just realised I've top posted - it's my brain, I'm sure there's something wrong with it.

Am I going up these stairs or going down?

Humour apart, altsimers is a terrible affliction and may we all remain free of it.

JD

Reply to
JDT2Q

Depends on the type of cavity wall fill

Not if its fitted free it isn't!

Whether the vents are fitted or not, boxes will have some form of insulation value

Depends on the type of insulation and decoration.

Considering heat rises, then in fact it could be more efficient - thus saving money!

Partly true, but takes many years to reclaim the capital cost in energy saving.

True.

How?

True - but as glass is classed as a fluid (look it up) then that will eventually sink to the bottom.

No capital cost saving unless orginal windows are rotten.

No capital cost saving unless orginal windows are rotten.

If properly fitted (without the glue :-) ) then thet will

*help*, not stop, but help.

In this case, properly fitted secondary double glazing can be of benefit - and I mean units.

If no room stat is used, how do you stop the boiler overheating those rooms?

It depends on what the OP means by inefficient surely?

Please explain your answer to this.

Again, please explain your answer to this - as a TRV do save fuel.

Please explain. Your reply suggests you know little of the causes of condensation!

The idea is good - but as you say, expensive.

Please explain both your answers to this. As a matter of interest, the gas savings are minimal between the various companies after the savings on the initial change.

It will if you have gas heating - and turn the roomstat down to compensate for the extra hot air you produce.

So you are inferring that the cost of electricity is based on type of bulb used and *NOT* an oil crisis?

Agreed

Ours does, but the manufacturer recommends a very hot cleaning wash every month.

Please explain - as what he says is actually true - and the clothes smell better!

How does an oven "burn" food because it's not preheated - that's down to your incompetence surely?

Now I know that you are either winding the OP up - or a thick yourself!

Oh yes they can - I do it regularly to save tine and space - but I know how to cook, unlike you!

If use properly, there is no flavour difference - and it really does save energy because of the way it cooks.

Now the OP is talking like a potato head!

Please explain!

But you said above that cooking without lids reduces condensation - make up your bloody mind!!

He doesn't - but you do - and he's correct.

*TRUE*, *TRUE*, *TRUE* - I do it regularly - as I said, I can cook!

Apart from energy saving, some types of food taste better believe it or not!

Try saying that to the five year old freezer of mine that had just that fault three years ago!

Monitors are available - perhaps the OP worded the statement badly!

Possible!

Not sure who I'm replying to now - but what a load of bollocks with bulbs now at less the a quid.

Go on try it, you seem "mad enough" LOL

For once you are actually *CORRECT* - give the man a coconut!

Shows how much you actually know about the subject!

Until you try to run the bath, use the washing machine and dishwasher and wash up at the same time!

The theory of the OP is correct, in practice well...

What a hypocrite you are - especially when the OP is correct for energy saving!

In practice battery storage is highly inefficient - that's why only a few vehicles use them. And it takes a lot of power to charge them - and the original reason for this post is...?

Rather quicker than you methinks. ROTFL

Now I know that I'm bloody bored tonight replying to this load of drivel (with another load myself) - especially as I have the OP killfiled because he gets on my wick[i] with some of the stuff that he posts.

Ah well, let's see if aioe lets this post go through without trouble!

Big Grin

Reply to
Big Grin

Bloody hell it did, now that's a first for me with this size of post!!

Big Grin :D

Reply to
Big Grin

I decided to look it up tonight in Google after my post to dispel or confirm my 'mind fixture'.

See this

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was sure I was going up the stairs.

JD

Reply to
JDT2Q

Many years ago a connection between Altzheimer's and aluminium cooking pans was suggested. Then dismissed. Quite possibly several times over. Last time I looked, aluminium pans were in the clear.

The Prestige pressure cookers were aluminium. We had one. And, as a child, most of the rest of our pans were also aluminium. (Aluminium is also widely used in commercial kitchens.)

Later, when setting up on my own, I went for a stainless pressure cooker (Kuhn Rikon) and avoided aluminium, but that was partly because I had a dishwasher...

Anyway, it was my stepfather (who was not subject to the cookware I grew up with) who died of Altzheimer's.

And I don't worry about aluminium pans - though the only aluminium cookware we currently have is hard anodised (and it has been suggested that avoids the problem - whether or not it exists).

Reply to
Rod

You might save a few kwh but I doubt that pressure cookers are cost efficient if you already have saucepans. Have you looked at the cost of a pressure cooker? They seem to me to be very expensive.

If cost is a consideration, you can quite easily cook three vegetables with one pan using steamers, we do.

Reply to
Edward W. Thompson

If you have no loft insulation at all I would expect a payback of 2 to 3 years at most if you have to pay for it installing. Increasing the loft insulation from 100mm (the old standard) to 270mm (the new standard) depth will take longer for payback (about 5 to 7 years ISTR) but as Big Grin points out you may be able to get it fitted for free and the sheds often do BOGOF on insulation for the DIYers.

Adam

Reply to
ARWadsworth

latest version, after incorporating much input...

Save Energy

Energy is ever more expensive, and its use has become a hot topic politically. Here are various ways DIYers can save energy.

=3D=3DDraughtproofing=3D=3D Draughtproofing is an easy minimum cost way to save energy in old houses. Self adhesive foam strip, profiled rubber strip and brush strip are all effective. Low cost self adhesive foams tend to have short life, but still save money. Draughtproof all 4 edges of doors, windows and letterbox.

=3D=3DInsulation=3D=3D =3D=3D=3DCavity wall insulation=3D=3D=3D Make sure you've got it, if you have cavity walls of a suitable type (rattrap bond and rubble walls should ''not'' be cavity filled.) Grants are widely available. The increased cost to heat a house for several years without [[insulation]] is greater than the cost of the insulation.

=3D=3D=3DLoft insulation=3D=3D=3D Lots of it. Loft insulation is an especially effective way to achieve payback.

Where goods are stored in the loft, boxed items trap air and thus have some insulating value.

=3D=3D=3DSolid wall insulation=3D=3D=3D Non-cavity walls can have [[insulation]] applied to the inner or outer surface. The cost and work involved are of course greater than cavity fill.

There are 3 ways to fit interior insulation. # Timber battens, insulation between, plasterboard, skim with plaster # Solid sheet insulation, plasterboard, skim # Solid sheet insulation with a hard cement front surface, skim

Exterior insulation usually consists of solid sheet insulation, with EML screwed in place over it, then rendered with cement mortar. Insulating render is an alternative option with lower insulation levels.

For the financially struggling, its possible to insulate walls for =A32 where appearance doesn't matter. Cardboard or narrow card boxes brushed with borax solution are held in place with wallpaper adhesive.

=3D=3D=3DUnderfloor insulation=3D=3D=3D Some people retrofit insulation under suspended timber floors and concrete floors. Both usually involve taking the whole floor up, so are only occasionally practical. The saving can be significant over time, if the floor had to come up anyway. If not, there's a lot of input to pay back.

In a minority of cases there's a crawl space to enable fitting without disturbing the floor.

Less effective but still useful methods for draught prone ground floor floorboards are

  • sheet hardwood laid over the floor to block draughts
  • carpeting underlay to both draughtproof and insulate.

=3D=3DWindows=3D=3D =3D=3D=3DDouble glazing=3D=3D=3D Retrofitting double glazing usually fails to pay its costs back. Also it incurs the additional cost (and energy use) of replacing failed sealed glazing units.

However when windows must be replaced for other reasons, choosing double glazing usually makes sense.

=3D=3D=3DSecondary glazing=3D=3D=3D

  • can pay back
  • can cause condensation & rot of timber windows
  • can be applied as opening sheets or non-opening.
  • is easily made removable

Types:

  • Acrylic secondary glazing eventually deteriorates, unlike glass, but it can last decades.
  • Secondary glazing starts at about =A36 a window using a plastic film glazing kit. This lasts a couple of years if not abused, but its weak and easily damaged. Holes can be patched, and if necessary the panel can be retaughtened with a hair dryer.
  • Polythene sheet costs less than =A31 a window, but isn't fully clear and doesn't shrink flat with a hairdryer. It does not look good.

=3D=3D=3DSash windows=3D=3D=3D Sliding sash windows can be draughty. A few types of draughtproofing can be fitted.

A favoured method is to remove the sliding sash, route a groove around its perimeter and insert a thin brush strip. This works well and stops rattles too, though it does make the window slide less freely. One alternative product used in the same way is a simple flexible plastic strip.

The cheapest method is to apply sellotape all along the gap where sash meets frame. Don't forget the gap where the 2 sashes meet.

=3D=3D=3DLeaded lights=3D=3D=3D Lead is an excellant thermal conductor, leaded windows have lots of it, and the design of these windows often leads to them leaking air as well. Secondary glazing dramatically improves the performance of these windows.

=3D=3D=3DCurtains=3D=3D=3D Heavy curtains help reduce heat loss at night by slowing air circulation past the window. The benefit is not comparable with double or secondary glazing.

=3D=3D=3DBlinds=3D=3D=3D Roller blinds give the same air slowing effect as curtains. Minimising the gap between blind and window maximises this effect.

Slatted blinds let a lot more air through.

=3D=3D=3DMetal windows=3D=3D=3D The steel frames conduct heat out of the building. Secondary glazing is beneficial.

If a steel window doesn't close properly, excess paint build up is often the cause. Crittall steel windows were only designed to tolerate upto 3 layers of paint, and most are now old enough to have a good deal more than that on them.

Damaged windows that don't align properly can be draughtproofed by applying silicone, placing polythene sheet over the silicone to prevent it sticking to the opening sash, and closing the window. The sealant is thus moulded in situ to block any gaps.

=3D=3DHeating=3D=3D =3D=3D=3DRoom stat=3D=3D=3D There are some heating systems around with no room thermostat! if you can't find a room stat, you need one. TRVs are only partially thermostatic, and can not replace the function of the room stat.

=3D=3D=3DBoiler=3D=3D=3D Some old boilers used cast iron heat exchangers. These exchangers are horribly inefficient and such boilers should be replaced.

The cost versus saving case is less clear cut for the more common old boilers with pressed metal exchangers. Modern boilers often have much shorter lives and higher repair costs, offsetting quite a lot of fuel saving.

Boiler efficiency and maximum heating system output both depend on the temperature of the primary heating water circuit, which is usually controlled by a thermostat on the boiler. Reducing this temperature reduces max system heat output, but improves efficiency to some extent. The gain is greater with condensing boilers. The thermostat on the boiler can be turned down in milder weather, and up again in cold times. Weather compensation does this automatically, but is not usually found on domestic heating.

=3D=3D=3DProgrammable room stat=3D=3D=3D These save money if you use them to heat the house to a lower temp for part of the day. If you don't, they won't save a thing.

=3D=3D=3DTRVs=3D=3D=3D TRVs improve the room by room thermal control, shaving costs. Despite the name they are only partially thermostatic, and offer improvement rather than complete control. Heating systems should have a TRV on all radiators except one.

=3D=3D=3DTurn radiators off=3D=3D=3D Turn off radiators in spare rooms etc

=3D=3D=3DRoom programmers & thermostats=3D=3D=3D Controlling the timing of heating or the temperature individually for each room trims waste further. However its not trivial to fit such control systems, and not many DIYers do so.

=3D=3D=3DElectric heating=3D=3D=3D This costs much more than mains gas to run.

[[electric heating|Storage heating]] on a reduced night time tariff costs much less than [[electric heating|plug-in heaters]].

With [[electric heating]] there is a big saving to be had by heating 1 or 2 rooms only. With gas central heating on the other hand, heating 1 or 2 rooms electrically may save nothing due to the higher cost of electric heat.

=3D=3D=3DClothes=3D=3D=3D Wearing clothes saves energy. Wearing additional clothes saves more energy. It seems obvious, but is sometimes overlooked.

=3D=3DLighting=3D=3D Replacing filament with [[CFL]] saves money - not everyone likes them though. The claimed power equivalents on the packet are misleading comparisons with softone lamps, not the popular GLS filament lamps.

4x is a more realistic rule of thumb, with 3x for reflector types, and down to 2x for very compact reflector types where the majority of the reflector is blocked by the tube.

Where appearance doesn't matter, eg for garages, linear fluorescent is the most energy efficient of all domestic lighting types. The longer the tubes, the more efficient.

Halogen downlighting is a particularly energy hungry type of domestic lighting. Energy use can be cut by a fator of 10x by changing to CFL lights, and not using them as downlighting.

The appearance of halogen can be retained to a fair extent by using 5w or 10w halogen spotlights and adding concealed [[CFL]] or linear [[Fluorescent Lighting|fluorescent lighting]].

A lot of 500w [[halogen]] outdoor lighting can have the bulbs replaced with 150w ones.

[[Dimmed PIR Lights|Dimming PIR fittings]] waste thousands of pounds. See [[Dimmed PIR Lights]]

A switchbank can much reduce lighting cost in many cases.

Dimmers only work with filament lamps, and produce little saving compared to full brightness, and waste energy compared to switching less total bulb power on.

=3D=3DKitchen=3D=3D =3D=3D=3DDishwasher=3D=3D=3D Packing the machine full before use reduces frequency of run and total energy use. Its quite common to see machines run when they could have twice as much in them and still clean everything. A full machine costs half as much per week to run, and the machine lasts much longer.

If you use a high temperature wash, a lower temp wash program saves energy.

=3D=3D=3DWashing machine=3D=3D=3D

40C washes use less energy than hotter programs, but machines do need at least an occasional hot wash to clean the machine. Pongs result otherwise.

Washing below 40 isn't recommended, muck builds up and pong eventually takes over. Some people do this, but buying a new machine because you used cool washes is not energy efficiency.

An occasional boil wash with [[limescale|citric acid]] helps keep the machine clean, prolonging is useful life. For maximum effectiveness, when the water in the tub has reached close to boiling, switch machine off and leave overnight. Complete the wash program in the morning.

Users of economy 7 type schemes may find the washing machine too noisy to run at night on half price leccy. This is often solvable by fitting noise reduction to the machine.

=3D=3D=3DTumble drier=3D=3D=3D Most of the energy use of tumble driers can be avoided with this [[Clothes Dryer]]

Drying clothes on a line outdoors costs nothing in summer.

=3D=3D=3DOven=3D=3D=3D Put foods to be cooked in without preheating the oven. The food's ready a couple of minutes sooner, and you lose 5 minutes of on-time. This works with all foods, but with fast cooking items it alters the cooking times a little.

=3D=3D=3DHob=3D=3D=3D Use lids on pans, turning the gas down very low. Once water is at boiling point, its impossible to make foods cook any faster. Its common to see people using over 10x as much gas as is needed to cook the food.

Note that all the food must be covered by [[water]] or some won't cook so quickly. Cooking on high heat causes the water level in the pan to fall, resulting in slowed cooking if anything less than high heat is used to maintain steam above the water. This leads some to mistakenly think if they reduce the heat their food won't cook as quickly.

On high setting, a lot of the flame's heat passes right past the pan. On a low setting, heat transfer is efficient.

Glass plates can be used on pans that don't have glass lids. They make the food visible, and are the right shape to return the steam condensate back to the food. Glass pans make it easier to see that the food is still boiling, but not too vigorously, and glass behaves very well with low power cooking.

Sometimes 2 foods can be cooked in the one pan together.

Pressure cookers also cook many foods faster than boiling. These work by cooking at above boiling point.

=3D=3D=3DMicrowave=3D=3D=3D Vegetables can be microwaved instead of boiled, giving less loss of flavour & nutrients, quicker cooking and much less energy use. One way is to add 1tb of butter & water to the veg, cover, shake to mix, and nuke.

Soups that were traditionally cooked for an hour plus can usually be cooked much quicker in the microwave, with better flavour. Also many soups only need some of the ingredients cooking, and the others (eg tinned ingredients) can be added after the cooking.

A microwave & convection combi cooker can cook with both methods at once. This can produce oven like results with a fraction of the cooking time and energy use.

=3D=3D=3DExtractor fan=3D=3D=3D Kitchen extractor fans can throw a fair bit of heat away. They reduce the sticky grease that's caused by boiling food on the hob - so there's no point using them in winter when only the oven's on. Use the minimum fan speed required to remove most of the steam.

Using low hob power with lids eliminates most of the kitchen grease formation.

=3D=3D=3DKettle=3D=3D=3D Old non-jug kettles waste energy by often boiling more water than is needed.

Boiling the exact amount of water needed reduces energy use. This is hard to judge but easy to measure. A kettle uses around half as much energy as a microwave if the exact amount of water is boiled.

=3D=3D=3DBulk cooking=3D=3D=3D If keen to save energy, cooking lots of servings at once and freezing uses less energy per meal.

=3D=3D=3DLow energy cooking=3D=3D=3D A few methods can be used by people really determined to save energy.

There are many hot dishes that require little or no cooking. The art of creating good quality dishes very quickly is called short order cooking.

Haybox cookery produces slow cooked meals using only enough power to heat them up. The food is brought to boiling, then buried under hay. This keeps it hot, like a slow cooker.

Thermos cooking is the modern version of the haybox. Soups can be put in a thermos boiling hot but uncooked, and be ready by lunch time. The small capacity of these vacuum flasks is a major limitation though.

Slow cookers can save energy only if they're well insulated.

Steamers avoid heating up a large amount of water.

=3D=3D=3DFreezer=3D=3D=3D On some freezers a non-obvious fault makes the compressor run continuously. This increases electricity consumption to in the region of =A350-=A370 a year, or upto =A3200 a year for freezers decades old. At =A3500-=A32000 per decade its cheaper to buy a new one than to use the old one. This fault is caused by partial loss of coolant, and can happen at any time to any freezer. Although the coolant can be topped up, if it leaked once it will again.

Occasionally people have stuck polystyrene foam [[insulation]] over the outside of their freezer to cut energy consumption even further. This does work, and is sometimes considered by people running a very small offgrid power system.

Old freezers from the 1970s consume enough extra power to cost more than a new freezer, even if they were free.

=3D=3DElectricity meter=3D=3D A power monitoring meter makes people aware of what is using how much, and this usually results in painless energy reductions. There are 2 types of meter. One indicates total house power consumption. The other monitors the power use over time of one appliance or one lead. Savings usually pay for the meter cost.

=3D=3DComputer=3D=3D A desktop PC may use 70w and its monitor 30-70w, versus a laptop's 20w (approx & variable figures). If a machine's in use 24/7, the difference between the 2 is around =A350 per year. Whether its worth moving over to a laptop depends on the laptop cost and hours of use, but usually its not, for cost saving alone.

Most desktop computer power supplies have an efficiency percentage in the 70s due to cost cutting. More effieicnt power supplies in the 80s or 90s percent are available for desktop machines.

=3D=3DTV & Monitor=3D=3D LCD monitors often use less power than CRTs, but this isn't always so. Its not enough saving to offset the cost of replacing them however, or the embodied energy.

Plasma TVs are much more power hungry than LCD.

=3D=3DStandby power=3D=3D Much political mileage has been made of appliances consuming power while on standby. All consume some, but the quantity and cost of this power is in most cases tiny. There are occasional exceptions, and if found such items can be switched fully off when not in use.

=3D=3DHot water=3D=3D Ensure your cylinder has either a foam coating or a fitted jacket. With jackets, check for any gaps.

Check for dripping or dribbling taps.

Hot water cylinders are usually fitted in restricted spaces, creating a space around the cylinder where more insulation can be added at no cost. Packaging peanuts, bubble wrap, jiffy bags, [[insulation| polystyrene foam]], and even screwed up paper all trap air and provide [[insulation]]. Ensure you don't cover the [[flex|electrical lead]] to an [[Immersion Heaters|immersion heater]].

See also [[:Category:Domestic Hot Water]]

=3D=3DShower=3D=3D Use a lower water flow. Turn off booster pumps. If necessary, turn water off while [[detergent|soaping]].

link to [how to stop teenagers taking forever in the shower]

=3D=3DBaths=3D=3D

4-6" of water was standard war time practice, and it does the job.

=3D=3DBatteries=3D=3D Batteries are highly inefficient ways to store energy.

Using rechargeable batteries gives a good saving on a lot of battery appliances. A =A310 set of NiMH batteries with charger can achieve

500-1000 charge cycles, replacing anything up to 1000 batteries. That's a cost equivalent to 1p per dry battery.

Rechargeables aren't well suited to all tasks, as they tend to self discharge when sitting unused.

Running battery items from a wallwart wipes out almost all the run cost of batteries.

=3D=3DPrices=3D=3D Finally, check you're getting the best deal on power.

=3D=3DSee Also=3D=3D

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Are you being charged triple for your gas?]

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Reply to
meow2222

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