Windmill nonsense.. Tilting at Wind mills

On Tue, 4 Jul 2006 21:41:14 +0100 someone who may be Andy Hall wrote this:-

Other than a few specialised ones they cost the same as a pint or two of beer now days.

On Tue, 4 Jul 2006 22:10:50 +0100, David Hansen wrote (in article ):

Lovely, but it's not compelling.

On Tue, 4 Jul 2006 22:03:00 +0100 someone who may be Andy Hall wrote this:-

This goes back to ignorance, or we can call it something else. In most markets the informed will often buy a more expensive product if they can, if they feel the price buys them something they want.

Offering something at the cheapest price in the market is not a guarantee of success.

Different people put different emphasis on how things look, especially if the product is to be installed inside something else. Compact fluorescent lamps come in a various of looks anyway.

Ditto.

In most cases push in and twist, just like the GLS bulb one is replacing. There can be an issue with physical size, but there can be with GLS bulbs too.

Compact fluorescent bulbs are a lot better in many respects. Electricty/cost saving and not having to change the thing so often are two examples.

It is always reassuring when the best people can do is distort the arguments of others. If they have better arguments they usually put them forward.

Buy a 49p one from Asda and have a look.

Anyway many of them produce close to daylight colour output so your red garments must look awful in the day.

Perhaps shops could lend out cases of samples against a deposit, like some hi-fi shops do with interconnects.

Then we could have magazines like "What Florrie" and "Tube Review" discussing the photic characteristics of clockwise vs anticlockwise pig-tail spiral lamps.

Owain

I got two freebies at the Jobcentre a few weeks ago.

Now if they did that with beer ...

Owain

David Hansen typed

So what should I do with my hall light fitting?

It takes 3 mini-globe bulbs, which are rather shorter than anything I saw on lightbulbs direct.

I really would like spectrographic data for lamps; I have no problem with scientific data!

Since I don't want to buy something that makes me feel ill, I won't buy cfls until I know what they'll emit.

The message from Owain contains these words:

And wiring each one back to its own consumer unit. With spikes on.

On Tue, 4 Jul 2006 22:42:31 +0100, Owain wrote (in article ):

I can see it now. Gold plated contacts with improved spectral response going for £1000 a pop.

On Tue, 4 Jul 2006 22:23:10 +0100, David Hansen wrote (in article ):

Absolutely. However, it isn't ignorance, it's lack of compelling story.

Agreed. these fail on that premise as well. there is little interest on a "premium product" basis either.

Still not compelling unless you are willing to put up with these compromises.Why on earth would anybody want a spirally thing hanging out of a lamp fitting?

It's not selling though, is it. Despite all the greeny arguments about energy saving, flag waving, pretending that these are the same, the reality is that they aren't and people are not finding them compelling enough to buy.

The mistake is in the misguided belief that everybody should be eco-minded. They aren't.

there are three ways to address that:

- price. hasn't worked with subsidised bulbs

- TCO. Doesn't fly because it's too complicated.

- Plug and play. Even that hasn't been achieved.

The trouble is that I would like to think the the situation is really better than I describe. I am searching very hard for evidence without agenda that suggests that it is.

At the end of the day, unless one distorts the market through legislation (which always backfires), the market will vote with its wallet.

If you actually want to make a difference to this, you will need to have a much better story because the present one works only for a tiny minority.

oh yes, people :/

Only thing left I can think of is running a light duct between floorboards, but if its exposed beams you cant do that either. I asume fibre optics to be impractical.

NT

Maybe buy one at a ime, each time a different brand. Yes you spend =A350 before filing the lights with decent bulbs, but a set of CFLs will save you that much, so it ends up costing nothing really.

Some are an accurate match for filament bulbs, some arent quite right and just dont look good in use. Close, but not quite right. We need that BS scheme imho.

NT

There's about a ft of compacted clinker between the joists, for sound insulation.

Possibly not cost-effective.

Owain

CCT and CRI are all thats needed. Most cfls are 2700k, but there are a few 4000k and 6500k too. CRI varies, you need high CRI. Its never printed on the pack though.

miniature bulbs are the one thing Ive found no acceptable replacment for. Toolstation do microspirals but theyre not good light quality. Screwfix candle bulbs are good, but their large size makes them not an aesthetic replacement for candles or mini globes.

NT

CCT and CRI are all thats needed. Most cfls are 2700k, but there are a few 4000k and 6500k too. CRI varies, you need high CRI. Its never printed on the pack though.

miniature bulbs are the one thing Ive found no acceptable replacment for. Toolstation do microspirals but theyre not good light quality. Screwfix candle bulbs are good, but their large size makes them not an aesthetic replacement for candles or mini globes.

One way is to use the lowest power filaments in the fitting and add cfl background lighting.

NT

On Tue, 4 Jul 2006 22:46:23 +0100 someone who may be Helen Deborah Vecht wrote this:-

At the moment there may be nothing available for it.

On Tue, 4 Jul 2006 23:49:33 +0100 someone who may be Andy Hall wrote this:-

Incorrect. Of course some would like to see them selling in greater quantities, but that is a different discussion.

Excellent, another attempt at mind reading.

On Wed, 5 Jul 2006 06:50:13 +0100, David Hansen wrote (in article ):

Correct and exactly the point.

I am sure that the sales figures can be found. Space allocated in retail stores is a good indicator of market share because retailers keep a very keen eye on sales volume and value and stock turns per square metre by department.

On this basis, sales are well under 10% by volume.

Not really. Simply an observation. Do you see yourself in those terms?

No they are not.

They use 'condensing' technology as well, you know.

Supercritical can be over 60%...almost no one builds less than 45% today.

Thermal efficiency is a function of combustion temperature and exhaust temperature. I doubt that any domestic boiler has a combustion temperature as high as a power station, or an efflux temperature as low (30C)