which new washing machine-to DIY instead of dumping when it breaks.

[PeterC]

When I wanted a new machine, about 4 years ago, I went to JL and bought a Siemens - load of crap! Must be completely under the worktop - it had a cover over the port hole to protect stupid brats and the was about an inch extra, so the detergent tray wasn't useable. The tray swivelled out and was far weaker tha a DVD tray. It took in water for a rinse, got partly there and then pumped it out again. After 2 visits by dimshits I video'd this; Siemens useless so I contacted JL and got a full refund - good old JL. Looked at JL's range and the 8kg had the biggest drum (9kg same size but

+£50). It was next to an AEG and looked the same. Used the booklet from the AEG and it matched the JL for all of the controls. JL £50 less than the AEG and an extra year's warranty. 2 snags: outlet hose is corrugated (and not very flexible) so traps clag (even worse on a dishwasher) and the former for the hose is so flimsy that the hose bends it straight.

[Tim+]

Jezzo. who pissed in your cornflakes?

The end effect is a reduction in large ampitude oscillations. Perhaps you should try looking it up?

Damper (noun) A device for diminishing the amplitude of vibrations (physics)

Tim

[Tim Streater]

Presumably without altering the resonant frequency. Reducing Q, IOW.

[Roger Hayter]

That's what I would have thought. But, from the Wikipedia article and its references quoted above, people have taken to calling a damper a mass which acts only on the resonant frequency, not absorbing energy and thus not reducing Q. Unfortunate sloppy usage by engineers who should know better, but it looks pretty well established.

[T i m]

<snip>

Said mass also damps the oscillation at 'non-resonant' frequencies, albeit to a lesser degree, just as a person could easier shake a lighter mass than a heavier one.

It's much easier to provide a softer ride on a heavier car than a light one (given people with the same weight in either).

Quite ... we are talking the 'real world' function of something on a washing machine.

There is no question (other than amongst those who don't like being proven wrong or are left brainers (often the same thing of course <g>) that the large lumps of mass they add to all objects that can oscillate with the goal of reducing such oscillation can be called 'a damper'. If it's mainly designed to work at it's best at a specific frequency (or resonant of such) it might be termed 'A tuned mass damper'.

It 'damps' the oscillations to varying degrees and on a washing machine, would likely be part of a closed loop solution along with 'out of balance' detection and rev controls / limits etc.

This is not the same thing as any physical / mechanical (fluid, air or friction) *damper* but part of the same goal / solution.

Cheers, T i m

[Pamela]

So your car is a Trabant? :)

[dennis]

Its been done before, its not as good as its much less dense than concrete.

The expensive machines use cast iron or brexiteers as they are very dense.

[dennis]

He is a philosopher, ie. someone that doesn't understand science but claims to.

[dennis]

My washing machine, a samsung, has proper dampers as well as large masses. Still vibrates sometimes and then it stops and redistributes the load and tries again.

[dennis]

What's wrong with Asda bags for life? About 10p when they aren't free and they just replace them when worn out or ripped.

[dennis]

Its well known that GEC TVs were much less reliable than Hitachi TVs despite both being built on the same line in Wales and the only difference being at the end when the badges were stuck on.

It was so bad that GEC stopped badging them.

[Roger Hayter]

snip

No it doesn't! If the system is a long way off resonance both before and after adding the mass it may reduce the amplitude of vibration, but not the energy being transferred to the system. So this may or may not be an advantage; probably not, because it does not alter the applied excitation force which is presumably not amenable to reduction. But the practical problem does not generally arise unless the original system can resonate at the excitation frequency, and the use of mass in this case is lower the resonant frequency which does reduce the energy stored to near that being provided by the excitation force, rather than building up increased oscillation due to stored energy - which is problem requiring a solution in the first place.

Fair enough if people want to include that under the concept of damping, but it is a different thing from power dissipating damping.

[tabbypurr]

The GECs I worked on had crazy quality problems. The soldering was so dire that they went to double sided boards with the exact same track pattern on both sides in an effort to get working sets. They did get one thing very right though, they used a bunch of small PCBs instead of one main one. MAde them way more repairable.

NT

[charles]

It was a joint GEC/Hitachi factory. Which? had told their readers that British sets were unreliable, so sales of the GEC badged models were so low that they sold the factory to Hitachi. I visited the factory soon afterwards. It was entirely Hitachi owned.

[DerbyBorn]

PeterC [e-mail]> wrote in news:oe0e9vkr5zj7.82ln70cgw9uz$. [e-mail]:

My Indesit does this - it is deliberate to rinse out the pump chamber.

[T i m]

Ok ...

Ok, so it's damping it ...

So?

Ok?

Who was defining the damping process being used?

If you stick a mass to the middle of a panel likely to 'drum' or 'resonate', you are damping the (broad spectrum) vibrations of said panel using no more than increased mass.

Damping and therefore dampers do not need to be a complex mechanical device.

Cheers, T i m

[2987fr]

So you don?t get what can be filthy stagnant water mixed in with the first fill used for the first rinse.

[Tim Watts]

I thought the purpose of the drum weights was to reduce the amplitude of vibration (in conjunction with the springs) whilst maintaining a balance between drum movement and whole machine movement (which of course would happen if you had a solid coupling).

[Tim Watts]

How did they manage that?

[tabbypurr]

no idea, never saw their production lines. All I can say is it was crazy-bad on set after set.