Which Boiler?

[GB]

I've just had a quote to replace a boiler. £1500 +VAT. I guess that's the going rate around here in London, although it looks like an incredibly straightforward job. There's plenty of room to work and so on.

My question relates to the boiler they are suggesting: "Supply and fit an Ideal Combi 25 KW Boiler".

What would the assembled minds here suggest is a good make/model of boiler to install?

Presumably a 25KW combi is required, but may go up to 28 KW, as we are thinking of converting the garage into an extra room. At the moment it's a 2 bed bungalow without very good insulation. Or is 24/25 KW plenty for heating, regardless, and the size is determined more by the need to provide a decent supply of hot water?

[Lee]

This pretty much, but obviously there are other factors like capacity of gas supply at the boiler installation point and mains water pressure/flow rate.

We have a 28KW purely because we wanted better DHW performance.

[Robin]

IIRC didn't do well in Which? report when we looked for elderly relative

2 years ago. But looks cheap for London. Depends on details though:

Power flush included? Approved installer? Ideal parts and labour warranty for how many years? At what price for annual service?

[GB]

My concern is just the choice of boiler. The rest of the quote looks okay.

Our quote for a new boiler is as follows Power flush out radiators and pipe work with chemicals and remove old boiler Strip back boiler and make safe and electrics. Remove old flue Supply and fit an Ideal Combi 25 KW Boiler Supply and fit new flue Alter pipe work to suit Alter wiring to suit Connect up gas and electrics. Make good around flue. Issue Gas Safety Certificate, Gas safe compliance certificate and register warranty. Clear site. Leave on and working.... Includes a 3 year manufacturer?s parts warranty £1495 + Vat

[GB]

In place of Ideal, I'm looking at specifying an Intergas 24 KW combi. They seem a bit cheaper than worcester bosch and they have a good rep, apparently.

Any comments, please?

[tabbypurr]

The 2 relatively reliable makes are Worcester Bosch & Vaillant. Forget the rest.

NT

[Robin]

FWIW in 2015 the Which? reliability index gave Viessmann the same score as WB.

[RJH]

I've had 2 Ideal combi boilers fitted in different properties over the past 10 years. Both have been reliable for the 5 years each I've used them.

I'd add they weren't my first choice - I'd have chosen Veissmann or WB. But the price difference, 5 year warranty (subject to annual service) and the fitter's strong lobbying swayed me.

Ans as some have mentioned - a higher output will I think mean a higher flow of HW.

[John Rumm]

Yup, 24kW is a tad on the feeble side for hot water. Good for a shower, but would be a bit slow on a bath.

[ARW]

Are Which reports still as useful as a suggestion from dennis?

You always do the opposite to what they say or suggest if you want a job done properly.

[Robin]

And I thought _I_ was cynical :)

I certainly dismiss most of what Which? counts as "tests" these days. But the reliability index for boilers was based on reports from Which? members of which gas boilers they own and if they had broken done in up to 6 years from when they were installed. I had thought that they couldn't muck up analysis of them but I suppose...

Not that Which? members are typical of course - as indicated perhaps by the sample including 848 Vaillant, 131 Veissmann (131) and 1,847 Worcester but only 177 BG.

PS I misremembered. It was Vaillant and Veissmann that had equal scores (77); Worcester was 79.

[charles]

I remember their test which showed that while Fergusson TVs were quite reliable - HMV ones were very unreliable. The two sets were identical apart from the cabinet - plastic or wood. Sample size for HMV = 1.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Yep.

What strikes is the amazing variety of feedback you get on e.g. ebay from 'fantastic' to 'shit, couldn't assemble it and it fell apart within one day'

(office chair was what I was looking for)

[newshound]

+1 for the relevance of Which? statistics in this case.

Also, there seems to have been a consensus here for some years in favour of Vaillant and Worcester Bosch.

[newshound]

Also, I was never able to persuade my first two combis (Vaillant, Halstead) to supply hot enough water for washing dishes. I'm *much* happier with a traditional system boiler, even with a vented cylinder.

[John Rumm]

Fair point.. most seem to top out at 60 ish for DHW. How hot do you want it?

[John Rumm]

Although consensus in any relatively small and insular group only has limited value, since we all probably parrot each other ;-)

[The Natural Philosopher]

Its not the temp, its the flow rate

The combi where I am these days has to be carefully adjusted to give hot water for a bath. Too fast and its cold. Too slow and it doesn't activate the flow switch

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Surely anyone would know that a tiny sample isn't going to give an average?

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Thing must of changed, then. I bought my Viessmann based on what was said here - and looking on their site.

But I did a self install. Getting a plumber to install what he's not recommended may not be the best idea.