Hello group. Hopefully the HVAC guys are listening in. My folks bought a house last summer which has a RUUD AC and electric (non-heatpump) system. We noticed the house takes a LONG time to warm up (central Texas, not really cold) so we called AHS. They sent whoever they use, and the first guy said the sequencer was bad so he ordered one. That didn't change anything. Then he said the thermostat inside was bad so he changed that and told my folks it would really be better. The house still takes over two hours to increase five degrees (1500 sq foot house 42 degrees outside) So mom called the company and they sent the dad of the first guy. He opened it up and said "well, here is your problem, someone didn't wire it right. It needs two circuits and they only wired in one" Well she called me and told me this and I got on line and looked up the model number:
UBHC17J14SHH and according to the on line documentation it says it is a single circuit system. Does it sound like we are dealing with people who don't know what they are doing? Should we call a RUUD dealer and pay for a different service call? Could it possibly be missing something that is actually part of the heating unit? The heat coming from the vents is luke warm. I have never lived in a house with electric heater type furnace so don't know what is correct but would think the output would be greater than luke warm. I know the AC guys don't like AHC (American Home Shield) but we got it cause my folks are on a fixed income but at this point I am beginning to question the guys who have been out there..Just wanted to run this all by some more experienced folks and see if they think we should go thru an actual RUUD dealer to have it looked at. Thanks so much! John
Electric strips are the worst method of heating in my opinion. I installed them in a remodel home I had in Phoenix. I installed the electric heat cause it was cheap and I figured I would never use it. Were the installed heat strips enough for the home? How many kw's do they pull? Turn on the heat and go look at the electric meter, should be spinning like a top. I would think that you should have something like 30-40 kw's of strip heat. Gonna cost a bloody fortune to run.
If the strips are pulling what they are supposed to pull then you need to find out where the heat is going. OR Change the speed on the blower for the winter months when heating is needed. Move the blower to medium or low speed. Slower speed will allow the air to heat more. Doubt that it will help the run time.
Your going to need a competent HVAC tech to diagnose the problem.
I would absolutely call someone who knows what they are doing. If the Rudd has a wire diagram in the electrical box or in the literature, then any competent repair person should be able to diagnose the problem and repair the unit.
As to cost of operation, Natural Gas in our area has increased so much that there is $27 difference between a 90% furnace and baseboard heat to satisfy my heating requirements. The old saying that electric heat is expensive is no longer true! Its all based upon what the cost of a Therm is for each type of heat and efficiency of unit. Baseboard heat is cheaper than an 80% furnace now where we live. So, don't rip out anything until you prove what is the best thing for your parents. Right now its getting someone in there that knows what their doing!
Hello guys and thanks for your input. Yeah I know we need to get someone in there but at this point not sure who first. They surely cannot afford to change out any equipment (sure wish it were heat pump and gas isn't an option) so gonna have to figure out how to make it right. I guess the first thing is they need to find out what size wire the run from the breaker panel is. Looking at the RUUD literature it looks like depending on the distance for a single circuit it needs to be a 4 or a 6. That seems awfully large. Mom said the wire is about double the size of the other wiring in there but she cannot see any writing on it so I told her to leave it till we can get more information or a RUUD guy out there. But my guess is the RUUD guy is gonna say " call an electrician" and then we will have to call the RUUD guy back again..But guess we need to get it right. I find it amazing the unit has been able to keep the house warm (albeit slow) with only working on half the strips.. Thanks! John
Thats pittiful advice SQLIT Electric heat, installed properly is perfectly fine heat. It is just expensive to run in many areas. Ive never seen 40KW's of heat in a residential home. That equates to
240 amps of electric service! Blower speeds dont just get changed like your underwear. On a heating and cooling setup, it switches automatically to the speed that was properly setup when the furnace was installed. It has to do with temperature rise. Too low a blower speed and the heat stays too hot and cycles/damages the limit controls. Too high a blower speed and it constantly feels cold in the home.
To the OP: If you are going to continue to use AHS then shut up and get the hell outta here. You are getting butt pumped by AHS and by the cheap hacks that they use. You dont need to have it checked by a "Ruud Dealer". You need it checked by a licensed competent heating contractor. Single circuit system doesnt mean a thing. You can have one single circuit from your main house panel to the furnace and still have up to
5 or so circuits in the furnace all running off of one, two or three sequencers. You need to stop with the cheap and find a good service company. Bubba
'UBHC17J14SHH and according to the on line documentation it says it is a single circuit system. Does it sound like we are dealing with people who don't know what they are doing? Should we call a RUUD dealer and pay for a different service call? '
Yes, its best to use a RUUD/RHEEM dealer.
' The heat coming from the vents is luke warm. I have never lived in a house with electric heater type furnace so don't know what is correct but would think the output would be greater than luke warm.'
You should be getting close to a 45-50 f. rise thru the furnace if its working correctly...after approx. 2 minutes of it running which gives the furnace enough time to stage on the elements ; (that is, the temperature of the air coming out of a nearby register versus the air going into the furnace (return). ).
'I know the AC guys don't like AHC (American Home Shield) '
These Warranty Companies are wrought with problems ; usually, they send people out who havent a clue what theyre doing. Call a RUUD/RHEEM dealer. Ive put in about 15-20 of these RHEEM Electric Furnaces and ive had problems with a few of them within one year of installation. Usually the sequencers or the limit switch(s). I like the stainless steel heating elements wrapped around the inside of the blower housing though
-- better than the cheap nickel chromium wire looped back and forth like a giant toaster.
'I would think that you should have something like 30-40 kw's of strip heat. Gonna cost a bloody fortune to run.'
NOT in a 1500 sq.ft home ! Youd find 40 kw electric furnaces in a 3300 sq. ft home. According to the RUUD model number she posted , its a 14 kw. unit.
'Change the speed on the blower for the winter months when heating is needed. Move the blower to medium or low speed. Slower speed will allow the air to heat more. Doubt that it will help the run time.'
Bad advice ! On the RUUD/RHEEM electric furnace, they require alot of airflow for heating . It should be set up where it gives an approx.
45-50 f rise thru the furnace...which in my experience...nearly all the time requires high speed year round. Ive seen too many electric heat failures with lowering the blower speed...especially with HO's forgetting to change the air filter often.
'Your going to need a competent HVAC tech to diagnose the problem.''
'To the OP: If you are going to continue to use AHS then shut up and get the hell outta here. You are getting butt pumped by AHS and by the cheap hacks that they use.'
Please excuse this bad attitude HVAC serviceman ; not all in the trade are like this obnoxious filthy mouthed person. But, alot of them are im afraid.
Sounds like they sent a parts changer out to fix your problem - "try this - nope, didn't work. replace that - nope didn't work." (you get the idea. Alot of these guys have very little training or experience and use the "need to order a part" excuse so they can go ask someone with the knowledge or to look up a generic service manual solution to what they have found on-site. Essentially you're paying them by the hour to "learn on the job". Unfortunately they tend to get lucky and "fix" the problem by replacing the right part by accident.
Another parts changer with better "technical" excuses.
If you want to wait around and pay for labour and enough parts until they stumble across what is actually causing the problem, then start with the phone book and call in the cheapest guys you can find.
If you want the problem diagnosed, identified, and CORRECTED, then find out who services the equipment you have OR an EXPERIENCED contractor. Yes, the guys who tend to specialize can be more expensive but compare that to paying for 2 or 3 different guys for at least an hour each to one guy who identifies and corrects the problem within an hour or so. Just my opinon as an HVAC building controls tech with 8 years of hearing the same things.
And you DAvey boy are the laughing stock of the industry. Everyone knows it. Your advice is so bad its deadly. Go away davey. Nobody wants your advice you looney hack. Bubba
Electric is the worst way to heat?? Not if you pay 2.6 cents a KW!!
30-40 KW of strip heat, in a 1500 square foot home in Texas?? Are you crazy?
10 KW would probably be plenty. Heck, here in ND we put maybe 15 KW in a home that size! Greg
First Don't fool with these AHS wizards. AHS signs up the cheapest producers of hvac equipment in the area and tells them to do it for about 1/4 the cost that a regular hvac contractor will work for and then you can sign up with us. AHS has not spend as much money on fixing at your hvac system 3 times as they would have by fixing it the first time with a real hvac contractor. They just get the cheapest workers that they can find and hope the fix it by the 4 th try where they break even on cost effective of getting a real hvac service company out there. They play the law of averages and hope to fix it by the 4 th try.
Secondly here. You have a 14.2 KW heat strips in the air handler and you say you have only 1,500 sq. ft. of floor space and take 2 hours to rise the temp 5ºF in the home at 42ºF outdoors. . Well there is two things going on here. First you need to go around and shut all the window and doors or your not running 14.2 KW worth of heat running. It sounds like your just running 10 KW at best and not running the full 14.2 KW of heat. At the 14 KW rate of heat your not going to be running no 2 hour to come up 5ºF on your home without the windows up or something like that.
Thirdly. Here is what i think is going on and it would fit to the not keeping up. The UBHC series Ruud / Rheem air handlers has roll electric elements in it and they are very pronded to failure is early life use and there is a recall of them if used in a horzinial application. i just think you have one of the elements out and just running on two of the three suppose to be running.
Fourthly. there is a recall on certain models and serial numbers of this air handler you have. Your model number is in the recall but you need to see the serial number to make sure it is in the recall units listed. Now i will give you the website to call or look at listed numbers to see if your unit is in the recall here for you to view.
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number to call to check on your air handler is listed in the recall can be got at 1-877-749-6035 ------ 24 hour a day / 7 days a week Rheem Hot line if you have trouble getting it over the internet.
Fifthly here. the reason the air handlers is recalled is the Electric Heat element will start to burn up but they will slowly burn up and start spitting little balls of moltent metal into the ductwork and if installed in a horzonial application it will spit these little fire balls into the rooms of the house. There has been reports of people sitting in their living room and start seeing fire ball flying into the room from the ductwork on the carpet and setting fires. I think that would be interesting to watch the people's faces when they saw this. So if the air handler is not in a horzonial application. There would be very little chance of setting a fire.
Sixthly here. Check the serial number of your air handler and make sure your in the recall type of the air handlers and then call a Ruud or even a Rheem Dealer to get Rheem to replace the elements with the new type that does not spit out fire balls. The whole cost of having the whole blower unit and elements changed out is free of charge through a Rheem / Ruud / WeatherKing Dealer. Now I did change out a few under the warranty but me being Commercial & not a residentiual contracted Rheem dealer . they would only give me the elements and sequancers to change out and give me $100.00 service cost to change them out. If your a residentiual contracted Rheem / Ruud / WeatherKing Dealer you get $100.00 + the whole blower unit with elements in it to change out. So try to get a Ruud residentiual dealer and you get more for your change out valve.
seventhly here. Now Rheem / Ruud / WeatherKing could decline to change the elements out on it under the recall is the air handler is over 5 years old , none of the elements of the air handler are not burnt , and the air handler is installed in a vertical application. Now you can say this and get it changed out anyway. Well if there is a recall on my unit and it happens to set the house on fire. I will sue you as the dealer and Rheem for any damages that happen. Then the thought pattern changes and they change them out for free. The Rheem / Ruud / Weather King dealer are told to try to get out of it if possible. If your model and serial number is of the recall air handler. Take nothing less than new elements and sequancers on your unit and installed for free.
eightly here. If you do get the Ruud dealer to change the elements out under the recall . Do have him service your unit and check it out for any other defects that you may have. You may have to pay a little more to have it checked out but it maybe well worth it down the road with problems.
If you want to discuss the details of this. Just e-mail me and discuss it.
Hey Davey , i like that statement about liking the Stainless Steel electric heating elements wrapped around in side the blower housing. Davey i did not know that they were stainless steel elements and not straight enduction heat elements. Did you special order them with stainless steel elements in them ?
How much insulation is in your attic, go measure it. Single pane aluminum windows ? or Good windows. Do doors seal tight. His furnace may be fine but house could be a real leaker in air and lack of insulation.
Cass County Electric, off peak rates, in the area of Fargo ND.
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is a "off peak" rate. For those that don't know what that is, you need to sources of heat, for example, electric boiler with a oil or gas fired boiler. Electric resistance heat, with oil or gas forced air backup. You agree that you will let the utility shut off your electric heat when ever they want to, hence the second source of heat required to take over when that happens. The utility may shut your electric heat off for days! You can hook up both water heaters and heat for your home. The rates for general use electric for the home is at a much higher rate, but still much cheaper than your 12.5! IIRC about 8 cents per KW. Greg
Ransley , The reason I was a little bold here in saying that the 14.2 KW electric heat would do a 1,500 sq. ft. house at 42ºF out door is I'm working on a exact match of this right now. One of my tech just bought a house to fix up and live in it for a while and then sell it and trade up in house value. It is
1,600 sq. ft. , NO insulation in the walls or attic, Wood frame off the ground with old style window that leak like a sift, and the Rheem hot air heating system is a 14.9 KW straight electric heat only which my father installed in the late 1950's and me as the help. When we was checking the system out we found the
5 extra KW heat was out and it took a long time to pull the house down like 2 or
3 hours at 30ºF outdoor temp.s. and then we got the replacement 5 KW heater element and put in it the next day and it pull the house from 50ºF up to 70ºF indoor temp in a little over 1 hour with a 30ºF something outdoor temp. . If he would have insullated it. We would not need the other 5 KW heat at all. We live in Louisiana where Electric and Nat. Gas prices are not too bad. The fellow that live there before him said his electric bill during the winter would not get over $200.00 a month at the very cold times and this house is all electric. Also during the Summer the highest electric bill would be about $250.00 or so.
So this was why i was getting a little bold on saying it should take care of it.
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