This bit of snow

[Huge]

Well, it might not snow every year, but it certainly falls below freezing every winter.

[Huge]

Two different power standards on the railways.

Almost as bad as the two different kinds of mains in Japan. From Wikipedia;

"In Japan, the electrical power supply to households is at 100 V. Eastern and northern parts of Honsh? (including Tokyo) and Hokkaid? have a frequency of 50 Hz, whereas western Honsh? (including Nagoya, Osaka, and Hiroshima), Shikoku, Ky?sh? and Okinawa operate at 60 Hz. To accommodate the difference, frequency-sensitive appliances marketed in Japan can often be switched between the two frequencies."

[Mark.]

you need to look for winter tyres, not all season/

[Tim Streater]

Because Southern Region was mostly electrified before the war. The rest of the country was on steam and there were in any case different regional companies. Once the kit is in place it's harder ro change it, although these days it's probably much less of a problem.

BTW, who said there were only two, eh? Look here:

[Grimly Curmudgeon]

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember Adam Aglionby saying something like:

Hah. Glasgow's Kingston Bridge was originally designed to have under-tarmac heating installed, because the architects knew full well it would be exposed to a moisture-laden breeze which would deposit loads of dew and freeze. To same some £250K, the heating circuit was omitted from the build. The first proper winter, cars were sliding all over the place and ploughing into each other.

[Tim Streater]

Well, I've never had a 3rd-rail train break down on me, unlike a Cambridge-KX train that the driver had to reboot, as he put it, a number of times (must be running Windows), before giving up near Stevenage. They had to send another train to push us to KX. Then there was one going the other way which terminated at Royston "due to problems with the overhead wires". I damn nearly missed a plane as a result.

(Then the plane had to land again soon after take-off, due to a faulty warning light).

[Grimly Curmudgeon]

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember Mike Barnes saying something like:

A bloke I knew in a village not far north of the border, got paid to bolt a snowplough onto one of his trucks and clear the road between his village and the neighbouring one, just over the county border. Each LA paid him for the same trip - nice little earner.

[Huge]

No thanks. My dislike of the railways is well known.

[Tim Watts]

They're always rebooting 375s (with 3rd rail).

[Terry Casey]

Save your money - you don't need to go that far!

Just take look at the Dinky Little Railway (DLR) which does the same ...

The new third-rail supports have to be beside the rail itself - the outside, away from the running rail, obviously. There is also enough room to position the new rail further away from the running rail.

It might be possibly, therefore, to mount shoes for the new system on existing stock without removing the existing gear and install the new third rail alongside the existing.

Stock with modified shoes would use the new collection system, where available, but all stock could use all of the track. The old third rail would be removed when the changeover is complete.

Remember that it is not just snow that causes problems - in autumn, fallen leaves cause traction problems on all railways but the third rail is especially prone to problems. If the leaf problem areas were upgraded first, the railways could save quite a bit of money from the improved operating efficiency which could then be used to fund the further work over the entire network to make it snow free ...

There is a cheaper method which relies on moving the points at regular intervals, especially in the middle of the night when there is no traffic and the points don't normally move - hence the reason there's all those frozen points in the morning when the trains want to start running again ...

IIRC they do that on the DLR as well ...

[Bob Eager]

The point I was making was the TC doesn't 'cut all power'.

[Terry Casey]

Well, you'd expect him to clear BOTH sides of the road, wouldn't you ...?

[Vernon]

Er no, in the Falklands the airport at MPA does not close, it has to remain open. When it snows there, it can put down a foot or two in a couple of hours. Apart from specialist snowclearing equipment, there was a whole raft of trailers and bolt on accessories for other vehicles. Drivers of said vehicles were trained to use it. Simple. We had snowploughs on the front of our landrovers, and aircraft tractors were fitted with steerable rotating brushes at the front, we could clear all our area of responsibility within 30 minutes or so.

So why can't councils turn around and do the same, there must be plenty of drivers who could be trained up, I doubt given the current situation(with job losses) you would get too many refusing to do it. So no need to pay more either. As TMH as already said a lot of councils use dual purpose vehicles as gritters, so why not other vehicles, trailers etc.

It all comes down to wether the council want to do something about it or just bury their heads in the sand for a week or so until the weather improves and hope people forget about it. Oh and a jobsworth attitude from their staff.

[Andy Burns]

We've not exactly had much snow here, probably a total of four inches in three bouts, but our estate roads never get gritted, one you reach the main road that's gritted and fine, but the estate roads are glass-like.

I wouldn't expect them to be gritted with the same priority as main roads, but if they'd sent a gritter round just once at some point in the week it would have kept them clear (I know as I gritted my own drive and section of path the morning after the first snow and it's still clear).

That would have avoided them cancelling the dustbin round today.

[dennis]

They haven't gritted the roads here either. They are also like glass. The dustbins were emptied as usual. Must have different elfs running the safety here.

[dennis]

all it shows is that you can spin the wheels and get nowhere.

[Tim Streater]

Ah, some detail, good.

Of course you're talking about a flat, horizontal area. How'd that word on hills?

(Not being -ve just for the sake of it :-)

[Andy Champ]

>> > - Worst problem I had last year wouldn't be helped by them. _I've_ never got stuck, low profile summer tyres and all. But there were 10,000 cars in front of me...

Andy

[Tim Streater]

Is there though? That might work in most places where the 3rd rail is to the left of the train - what about if its between the two tracks? Or if there's 4 tracks?

Anyone know if this has been looked into for Southern?

I wondered about just mounting a new rail vertically above the existing. But the curve of the train body or other mechanicals might defeat you there (I can't visualise this).

[Andy Champ]

I have spent a couple of hours parked outside the station waiting for the third rail train. Ice on the rail acts as an insulator, forcing the pickup off the rail, and that's that.

The train finally turned up being pushed by a Diesel goods, and with all the interior lights flashing on and off. Must have been fun.

Andy