Suggestions for standard drill - keyed / keyless

[Dave Plowman (News)]

I'm not sure if there's any difference in the length of time NiCads or LiIon batteries last - ie number of cycles. Depends more on the quality of them?

[The Medway Handyman]

Have a look at the Site version (made by Makita) £18 less with 3 batts.

Makita BHP451RFE (£250+, 3-speed, 2 Li-Ion batteries)

Bit of an overkill for DIY.

Battery quality matters a whole lot, as does the quality & 'intelligence' of the charger. Thats what you pay for with brand names & don't get on cheapies.

I ran a 12v Makita driver & a 12v Makita impact driver in daily use for the best part of 4 years on 1.3 a/hr NiCds before they gave up - they did a shit load of work, including many big decking jobs.

Its worth going for a 'big brand' because you can source extra batteries. For example

18v 1.3a/hr NiCd batteries for just over £70.

[js.b1]

L-Ion have an integral chip which monitors cells, if a cell has drifted far enough it prevents the battery being charged for safety. I believe this is "typically" after 300-400 cycles, but I doubt it is hard coded (ie 300 cycles OR cell out of spec).

The recent Makita do not seem as well built as their 1999 counterparts, but prices are better (both literally and in real terms) and batteries seem just as good. Gear teeth seem to be weaker, but I am very hard on them because I use them for milling and other brutal applications - 1999 drills just took it in their stride until eventually collapsing after horrific abuse far far beyond what even a trade application could subject them to.

Never overcharge batteries or stick an ice pack on them (the cells further away with overheat badly and it is stuffed). Some very cheap Bosch charges did not auto-switch off or trickle charge, avoid nonsense like that because the pennies it saves screws you on batteries which are costly.

It is quite possible to do nearly all DIY work with a Makita 9.6V or

12V, twin 1.3Ah batteries are a lot better than one unless you like regular breaks. You can pick up "last years model" for about =A340 if lucky. Hammer functionality on a cordless is a bit pointless, you can use Bosch Multiconstruction bits (no hammer, drill bricks) or Makita Brickmaster - or just use a mains SDS which runs rings around them. Hammer (Combi) adds a lot of weight and if not used not necessary. The 9.6V Makita I think gets a "Marathon" motor without stating, it outperforms the 12V and 14.4V from most other makes (and beats their own 12V in many applications I think because the real-world-RPM is higher).

There is a good Dewalt ?14.4V or 18V? which has relatively high RPM, useful for certain bits which need the RPM high. Remember an SDS is generally 0-900rpm or so which is not much use with certain drill bits.

[John Rumm]

Decent batts will last well enough in terms of years service, and charge/discharge cycles. The lower capacity ones will obviously not run the tool for as long between charges. If buying at the cheaper end of the market, then lower capacity often also equals lower quality cells. That is not necessarily the case at the higher end.

Note if you buy a Mak with NiCd, the charger will also handle NiMh cells

- so you can replace the batts later with higher capacity ones if required.

From a usage point of view LiIon are a bit lighter for a given capacity. A different technology altogether, but probably well suited to infrequent use as well as heavy use. (NiMh well suited to heavy use, but has a slightly higher auto discharge rate, NiCd somewhere in the middle)

[John Rumm]

Yup the charging is more complicated - you can#t let them go totally flat either IIUC - so the tools have monitoring logic in them to shutdown before you over discharge the battery.

I think there was a slight step down in quality about 2005 ish - not a big one, but a couple of bits on later tools did not seem quite as nice.

Indeed - having three batts helps here, since you ought not charge a hot pack. That gives you a chance to have one in use, one cooling down after use, and one charging.

I would agree for the smaller cordless, but find by the time you get up to the 18V versions, the hammer action is not far of that of a basic mains drill.

Yup, another vote for them!

Some of the better dewalts still have very nice chucks as well. Probably not worth getting too hung up on brands in the sense that it makes more sense to be able to share chargers, and batts between a range of tools than necessarily have the best example of each if it means a mixture of chargers and batts etc.

[js.b1]

18V is getting heavy, but has the attraction of cordless angle grinders, jigsaws, circular saws (I think) and the obligatory blind yourself torch.

[John Rumm]

Yup agreed - its fairly hefty - but no more so than a mains drill.

If you want to push the boat out, then having a 18V one for the heavy jobs, and one of the new breed of 10.8V LiIon jobbies for light tasks might be the ideal combination.

Both Mak and Bosch do a nice twin set of tiny drill and impact driver that looks rather nice:

[Stephen]

Was that the corded or cordless one? I think that they did a cordless one that also had a 90 degree adaptor but also a mains one that had gears and could be used for mixing. The Medway Handyman posted here about the corded one I remember. By the time I learnt about them they had been reduced to clear and no-one had any left. Does anyone else sell Kress drills? Surely Wickes wasn't/isn't the only people to sell Kress drills? Do Kress still make Wickes' drills? I thought the new range was made by someone else but I don't know why I think that.

Thanks, Stephen.

[The Medway Handyman]

I've got one I hardly ever use if you need one.

[John Rumm]

The Wickes light grey bodied "pro" stuff is usually made by reasonably decent OEMs, although not always the same one. So they have done drills by Kress, and routers by Freud etc, but that does not mean that they deal exclusively with those OEMs.

(One of the problems with much of the Wickes pro stuff was they often charge more for it that the actual own label OEMs charge! The Kress drills used to be quite attractive at the price - but these days Makita etc have come down to the same price point which makes them less interesting).

Back in 2004 I emailed Kress regarding sales and support etc. They said they did not have any dealers in the UK but did sell direct from Germany. They also had a couple of service agents here. (I posted the reply here at the time)

[Stephen]

If he doesn't want it, can I? Which one is it: the corded or cordless?

[Stephen]

I could try that as there isn't import duty on purchases within the EU is there? The last time I looked though, the Kress drills were brightly coloured; the Wickes grey was kinder on the eye!

Thanks, Stephen.

[Stephen]

I know that batteries get hot when recharging but never knew they got warm in use. I've learned something new today.

I never knew some people tried to force cool them with ice packs either!

Thanks, Stephen.

[John Rumm]

There was a time the Wickes one was quite a bit cheaper than the other

2kg SDS machines, but not you can have a blue bosch, Makita, Hitachi etc for much the same money the attraction seems far less - especially as the others have extensive dealer and after sales support in the uk.

[The Medway Handyman]

[The Medway Handyman]

[John Rumm]

> Drool.....

I have a sneaking feeling that might be the sweet spot for a small ID. The TD020 is ok, but I prefer the ergonomics of a traditional "gun" style layout with the trigger under the finger rather than on the side, and the little ID could do with just a tad more power.