I am looking for a replacement drill for my Black and Decker 600Watt
2 speed,hammer action,corded,keyed 1/2" chuck which is now many years old and past it's best . I'm ordering stuff from Screwfix soon so would prefer to get it from them .I don't need SDS and have had little need for the hammer action .I guess that a cordless one needs to be a good ( and therefore expensive) one so I'm happy enough with a corded one . A keyless chuck would be helpful unless there is a reason why they are not to be recommended .?? Anyone any ideas
Ok. Cheap screwless chucks tend not to be able to be tightened up as much as even the cheapest drill chucks.
IMO, for a light, DIY, "all-in-one" drill.
Variable speed is essential - for screwdriving for example, as is reverse.
'aluminum gearbox', or whatever, is a nice option, but it can be fairly heavy, the two speeds do make for less compromises, however, the drill may be physically longer.
Bosch PSB500RE+S Percussion Drill 230V does not look unreasonable, if it supports reverse.
It depends - gearboxes can make the thing a fair bit heavier, and are not really required if the drill also supports a speed limiter on the trigger (as 99% of variable speed drills do). (Unless you're doing BIG screws into hard wood.)
A mains drill already has a gearbox, since the armature speed is approx
20,000 rpm. And single speed drills are usually designed to give about
2500 rpm before electronic control. To give a say 600 watt drill decent slow speed torque for screwdriving this basic speed needs to be under 1000 rpm. But that might make the drill rather restricted for general use.
IME, anything 75mm or under will go into almost any wood, just fine with a 'One speed' drill. A bit over that, and you may need to use a dab of grease. A bit over that, and it won't put it all thej way in.
I'd broadly agree. I've got a fairly ancient B&D Tradesman 2 speed gearbox variable speed and reverse drill. It was the first one I owned capable of screw driving. And on the low speed gear it'll drive any screw I've tried, but not on the high one. Not that the high speed is much use for this anyway - I like about 50 rpm max for screw driving.
Two speed drills tpically have a high speed that goes faster than one speed drills though, with correspondingly lower torque.
High speed takes getting used to. I think I typically use around 250RPM. I put in several hundred 30-60mm screws in a shed, using a Power Base PB550HB drill, that was IIRC 19.99.
Hold trigger in one hand, and the other hand under the chuck, with it running on your hand, with the back of your hand supporting the collar, and the thumb and adjacent finger holding the screw to the chuck.
Adjust the drill to about 250RPM limit.
Put the screw on the bit, touch the screw to the wood, apply a force of
100g or so, and let the drill run until the screw drills in far enough to bite. Then rapidly increase the force pressing down on the screw, while backing off the trigger. The screw finishes off the very end by the drills inertia.
I was mainly thinking back to the single gear variable speed nutool I had a play with. Using it to exert the kind of torque required for screw driving simply resulted in the brushes practically catching fire!
Last week I was talking to a Bosch power tools rep. He was quite objective and said that PP Pro has taken a slice of all the major companies markets. He said many men on sites now use PP Pro. He talked favourably about Ryobi and said their marketing dept had done a good job on the ONE+ range. He said Bosch had that but with only 14.4v batteries, so missed out, but they did not market the one battery approach, and give it a name, and did not sell the 'bare' batteryless tool. he said DeWalt have the one battery range but have seriously dropped their market share across the board. I said they are not better than B&D. He agreed.
About having them repaired, he said the men on sites don't bother too much with normal drills and just buy another as they can't afford the wait. He put that attitude down to PP Pro gaining ground, which 'can' be cheap enough to throw away. Although he noted the top of the range is not that cheap. He said overall PP Pro is good value for money and that the line between serious DIY and pro is now blurred.
The new Bosch Lith Ion battery drill he rates and gives the torque, but the men on site will not buy it as they don't think it can do the job viewing battery voltage as the yardstick, and it does not look macho enough for them. Around 2 amp/hr is what the site boys are going for. BTW, an Aldi I went in had for £17 a small fit in your palm type Lith Ion battery driver of around 7.5v. Looked very handy, and it will probably have the torque of a NiCad 12v.
His personal view is that 24v is only worth it on SDS drills, as they are too heavy. He rated the Kress/Wickes range of tools, which he said had stood the test of time.
So to sum up, he agreed with all that you've ever said,in detail, with no disagreements at all. You must have felt completely vindicated, and should feel justifiably proud.....
The bit about wanting macho looking tools but then buying some bargain basement make simply doesn't ring true.
Brands are everything to that sort of chav.
We have contractors of one sort or another in near continuously. And since dribble has made this comment before I note what makes they're using. Invariably Makita, Bosch or DeWalt.
Oh we did disagree. Mainly on that I thought Bosch were overrated and overpriced giving my experiences of Bosch. I said Makita were better than the blue range. He said they are equivalent. He also said blue Bosch were equiv to Panasonic. I disagreed. he said Panasonic tools are expensive because of low production runs.
He said Ryobi ONE+ batteries were not as good as Bosch, I said they have Panasonic cells, the best. He said he didn't know that. I mentioned the ONE+ Impact Driver. He said it was expensive when you buy the charger and batteries. I told him, two batteries and charger is £60 and £70 for the bare Impact Driver. £130, a far lower price than Bosch and throw in a ONE+ drill/driver and still a lower price than the Bosch Impact Driver and a longer guarantee. He said "we have some hard competition then", but their name and brand loyalty would carry them through any adjustments of the market.
He did say that the market for power tools has increased, but they have not dropped in sales despite being behind in some sectors, with the likes of PP Pro, Ryobi and others filling the expansion gaps. I asked him about the future direction of Bosch. He said they are concentrating on Lith Ion batteries to give lighter batteries and more torque, but the company is not yet shouting the virtues of the setup to the pros, who are still into macho looking tools. They thought they would all understand the advantages of Lith Ion and run for them. The boys in site of course knew dickety sweet nothing about them. He gripped about the marketing and ads of Bosch to promote new technologies.
I did educate him a little. I said that the likes of PP Pro, and the Aldi type of tools, have it right in 3 yr guarantees and virtually throw away tools. Having everyday cheapish tools repaired tools is financially not worth it. He agreed, although he said they did have tools cheap enough to throw away, and have repaired. I pointed out the 1 yr guarantee. He said the company is adjusting to the market and observing as it goes along. I had the impression he wasn't too happy with the way they were marketing the tools and the ranges that they had, seeing what the competition were doing, especially in the one battery ranges, of which Bosch had no answer to. He is on the front line and at times felt lacking when they could not give an equivalent when other companies were clearly ahead. He was extolling the brand and quality of Bosch, of which I said times have changed. He had the impression that Bosch may be coming out with a one battery range using Lith Ion batteries, with a big ad splash. He said the marketing people tend to keep a lot close to their chests.
Unless a knock down deal, I wouldn't buy one. I pointed out to the Bosch rep about the poor quality experience of Bosch I have had. I told him about the torque ring that slips from drill to No. 5 a lot, after 6 months,. He said why didn't you get it repaired under guarantee, I said I couldn't be bothered with the hassle as I needed it at the time, and how many have done the same as me, and I pointed out the cheap throw away tools available, so having them repaired is more hassle than what it is worth with cheap enough tools. He sort of agreed but pointed out expensive table saws and the likes can't be thrown away. A different market I pointed out. I find that Bosch as still in the past in many ways. Probably too big to adjust too quickly.
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