Smart meters, what do SMETS2 use to communicate (Suffolk)?

[Chris Green]

I've just been nudged by Shell to try and get me to allow them to install a smart meter. Their E-mail says (among other things):-

Your meter will lose functionality in March 2024

Since it's a simple, non-smart, economy seven meter that just takes separate day-time and night-time readings with a clock to switch between rates I don't really see how they can claim it will somehow stop working in a year's time!

However, I was anyway wondering how the new[est] SMETS2 meters send their readings. I gather there's a 'middle man' oranisation called DCC that manages this but I also seem to remember that the way it's done varies between different areas of the UK.

So can anyone tell me what provides the connection (as in sending the data from the meter) in Suffolk? What sort of infrastructure does it use?

[Andy Burns]

south it's O2 mobile network, north it's arqiva dedicated network, also they have mesh options available so your meter can use your neighbour's meter to get a signal

[Andy Burns]

DNO areas 1-9 are south, 10-14 are north

[Robin]

Their claim is true if the meter depends on the Radio Teleswitch Service.

[Chris Green]

Guess what, Shell have climbed down:-

Please be advised that you don't need to exchange your meter at any time as longest as it is working. Please disregard the message you received.

:-) :-) :-)

[Chris Green]

My neighbours are a fair way away!

[David Wade]

The teleswitch service which relies on signals on Radio 4 long wave signal, is ending some time next year so many economy seven switches will stop working.

I yours has an actual clock it will continue to work , but because of the way meter ownership has been miss-handled Shell may not be aware of the type of meter you have and are just telling every one on Economy 7 they need to change, hence your E-Mail. They may also feel that switching everyone removes the risk they miss some one. In any case these meters are now old and probably out of calibration so they may insist on a replacement.

Of course it also helps them fulfil their smart meter targets, but if yours did stop working you would be cross. When you do need new you will have have a smart meter or loose E7.

In the north there is a private network, in the south mobile phone network.

I believe in Suffolk I believe 2G mobile phone.

Dave

[Brian Gaff]

First I've heard that any old meter will stop working. Certainly they have a life span after which they need to be swapped out and recalibrated and serviced, but you usually found that you got the same as you had before. On the smart meter, yes I think they introduced a single system to get readings to fix the old issue of one meter not working with another company. The guy told me it piggy backs on one of the cellular networks and sends data back a bit like a text message every 20 minutes. I did ask what happens in the middle of nowhere, and basically he said, that they won't work, and you are back to getting readings yourself. Personally, I don't see why they cannot use the Internet if it exists, as I do see in the various set up bits on the display, that there is a wifi option. However they do not seem to use what I call the bleedin obvious way, i.e. shove it down the mains wiring. Maybe it gets lost or causes too much interference or something. I also feel that the way gas uses a dry battery to support its comms to the Electricity meter a bit crude. Brian

[Brian Gaff]

Probably don't know their arse from their elbows. Brian

[Andy Burns]

I suppose the gas meter could use a pilot light and a thermopile to power itself!

[SteveW]

Assuming that Smart gas meters work the same way as the old mechanical ones, they'll have bellows inside moving up and down or back and forth, as the gas passes through. That movement could probably generate enough power to charge a battery or a large capacitor to power the electronics.

[David Wade]

Economy-7 meters will stop rate switching when Radio 4 long wave is switched off..

Dave

[Andy Burns]

It wasn't entirely a serious suggestion ...

They measure time of flight of ultrasonic pulses, and presumably multiply by a known cross-section of the chamber.

[Robin]

Some SMETS2 meters still use diaphragms.

And I thought the way the ultrasonic ones rely on the /difference/ in time of pulses with and against the gas stream changing as the rate of flow increases means the cross section is not critical.

[Max Demian]

Or a teeny ICE.

Pre-pay meters have to have batteries too as there usually isn't any mains electricity in or near the gas meter cupboard.

[Max Demian]

Would you want to allow your meter access to your home Wi-Fi?

[Andy Burns]

Maybe, mine is quite an old SMETS1 and it's ultrasonic, I thought they'd all use that by now ...

I presume it uses the pulses to gauge the speed of the gas flow by doppler, but just by knowing the gas is travelling at umpty m/s doesn't tell you the volume.

[Chris Green]

Well as long as it stops switching when it's in night-time mode I'll be happy! :-)

However from the reply I got from Shell it looks as if my economy 7 meter doesn't use the R4 long-wave system.

[Tim+]

Depends if it was the only way of getting my data uploaded or not. There are areas of the country where smart meters just don’t work.

Tim

[Robin]

Yes, I mistook you to mean the cross-section was needed to calculate the flow rate.

But no, at least some of the gas meters use the differences between time of flight of pulses, not the Doppler shift.