sds chisels

And how does Lidl treat its staff?

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you and the other people who don't care what they put in their mouth should be writing to Lidl to ask some questions?

Reply to
Steve Firth
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Oh bless, what's this, trying to obtain silence via threats?

Reply to
Steve Firth

Interesting and of concern but these were all supplier problems and your earlier post referred to "Lidl adulterating food", which is not supported by any of the above. Supplier problems have affected all supermarkets.

Reply to
Bob Mannix

What documentary and when?

Adam

Reply to
ARWadsworth

No it didn't. It referred to the passing off of adulterated food, which is what has happened. In the particular case of olive oil, sold under an own-brand label it's difficult to know how a supermarket could claim to be an innocent victim of the supplier when the price charged in the supermarket is below the cost of production of the product in question.

The products in question were mostly "own brand". Even if they were not, in English law, the supplier carries the can for the quality of goods that they supply. Donahue vs Stevenson. Trying to claim that it's all the fault of someone else is ignoring UK precedent about who carries the can for the supply of adulterated/contaminated goods.

If supermarkets wish to avoid the consequences of "rogue" suppliers then the supermarket should have appropriate quality control processes in place to monitor the performance of their suppliers. They cannot duck responsibility, as you seem to wish them to, by claiming that someone else let them down.

Reply to
Steve Firth

Your post at 13:26 today said:

I have references to Lidl adulterating food, yes. I've posted them here before.

Reply to
Bob Mannix

I take it you now admit that food poisoning cases have been traced to Lidl purchases (including the death of a child)?

Oh righto. And?

Are you denying the facts in that case? Would you have been happier if I had used the terms in this article?

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may well like the products from this supermarket. If you do, all power to your elbow. I won't be eating anything they offer.

However you seem to be either blinkered or determined to mislead with your "Not aware of any food poisoning cases traced to Lidl purchases" when there are documented cases. Indeed you went as far as to speak about "nebulous Google returns", when the evidence is far from nebulous.

You've also attempted to shift the responsibility from the supermarket to the "suppliers" when (a) this is a denial of liability in UK tort law (b) you're conveniently overlooking the fact that the products in question are own-label products. If Lidl is not responsible for own label products, who is?

Reply to
Steve Firth

Yes, along with many other supermarkets and food outlets and caterers - but then I never said I didn't, I said I wasn't aware of any and asked for the references which you gave.

I said you had accused Lidl's of adulterating food. You said you hadn't.

I am denying no facts merely trying to get at them, nor am I happier or unhappier.

Many/most of the cases were not Lidl only suppliers and the cases clearly represented a food health problem lower down ( much like BSE, salmonella in poultry etc).

I didn't say they didn't carry the responsibility under the sale of goods (and any other) legislation but "adulterating food" is an even more serious charge, implying Lidl are taking stuff from their suppliers and then modifying or adding to it in a way that is unhealthy (in this context) for their customers. I don't believe any mass retailers do this. It is true that supply chain problems may result from low pricing which is Lidl's market sector but if the contract is to provide food of a certain quality, no supermarkets have the resources to test everything and suppliers have to take their responsibility. "Own label" makes not a jot of difference to anything above.

Reply to
Bob Mannix

I take it you haven't bothered to read the report then?

Reply to
Steve Firth

Well if you are referring to the Olive oil report, yes I have. It deals nowhere with adulteration but with mislabelling as "[extra] virgin olive oil" when it isn't. While this is clearly illegal, it has nothing to do with adulteration and even less with food poisoning. The consideration of the qualities of various supermarkets is not enhanced by egging the stories into something they are not. There are some things I would buy at Lidls and some things I would not. "Extra virgin olive oil" clearly isn't (or wasn't) and I wouldn't buy such a product there anyway. Again the fact that it is own label is irrelevant, as I said, it's the fact it is labelled "extra virgin" whatever the rest of the label says.

Reply to
Bob Mannix

The link you gave us last time told us that some "experts" couldn't tell the difference between the best quality 'extra virgin olive oil' and what was on sale in Lidl and Aldi. They had to resort to some obscure extra chemical testing to find out that the oil had been heat treated, which in isn't necessarily a bad thing.

On price, I found in a few minutes of web searching that the wholesale price of extra virgin olive oil in both Spain and Australia was well below the price that these supermarkets were charging. The cost of supply isn't below the cost of production.

Your vendetta against Lidl and Aldi seems to based on the fact that they can sell some products at a lower price than the cost of production from in some EU peasant farming communities. Wake up and smell the coffee, European consumers are no longer willing to pay high prices to subsidise some inefficient olive growers.

Reply to
Alan

I wouldn't know about doccos. I really only do drama these days. And I can assure you I don't know of any male recordist with a pony tail out of the many I see around.

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

Then you haven't read the report carefully enough. The report states of the oil that the results indicate adulteration (addition of a processed olive oil which is not "extra virgin"). What else does one refer to the blending of a food product with an inferior quality of food as if not "adulteration"?

It has everything to do with adulteration. No one claimed that the olive oil lead to food poisoning, the food poisoning was a separate issue, covered by a separate report.

No one has done such a thing, I suggest that you read the article again, and this time that you actually get to the end of it.

What you would or would not do is irrelevant to the issue of whether the supermarket in question sold adulterated food.

That's profoundly incorrect. For an own-label product the supermarket is responsible for every aspect of the product. It is not, as you keep attempting to portray it, as if some supplier foisted a product upon an unknowing innocent. The supermarket knows how much it pays for the product. The buyers must know exactly what that product wholesales for. The article states clearly "In supermarkets "Extra Virgin olive oils" are offered at dumping prices."

You do know what "dumping prices" means, I take it? Supermarket buyers certainly do.

It's the fact that it consisted of a blend of oils which were not exclusively "extra virgin". If it had been a low quality "extra virgin" then I would not state that it had been adulterated. However it was a blend of oil, probably "extra virgin" with other processed oils which by definition cannot be "extra virgin" sold as "extra virgin" hence "adulterated".

Perhaps you're unfamiliar with the term "adulterated"?

"to prepare for sale by replacing more valuable with less valuable or inert ingredients"

Are you going to continue to argue that the oil in question was not adulterated?

Since you're not someone who is used to buying good quality olive oil, and you're certainly not someone who knows about the organoleptic qualities of olive oil, I'll point out that there are more clues than just the chemical analyses about the adulterated nature of the oil in that report.

Note the tasting notes for the Aubocassa oil in that report:

"Freshly cut grass, forest honey, ripe tomatoes, bell pepper. Mild bitter-walnut taste and a peppery -savory aftertaste."

That's a typical result for an extra-virgin olive oil. The pressing of an extra-virgin olive oil preserves a complex flavour and even cheap extra-virgin oils have those complex notes. The tasting notes for the other oils state:

"slight olfactory off¬notes, rancid and metallic taste."

and

"Distinct olfactory off-notes, metallic and winey taste, muddy."

Terms like "rancid", "off-notes" and "winey" indicate that the oil has started to break down, either as a consequence of poor storage or simply of age. Those tastes should not be present, indeed cannot be present, in an EVOO which has been produced in clean conditions and stored appropriately for no more than 12 months before sale. Their existence makes it clear that either the oil on sale is itself old, or has been diluted with old oil. The lack of complex flavours makes it clear that the oil is *not* EVOO or has so little EVOO in it that the flavour has been diluted out.

You can make all the handwavyness you want about suppliers, your personal preferences etc. but an independent *German* source has found results that flatly contradict your statements.

Reply to
Steve Firth

Does not exist, other than in your imagination. My "vendetta" if there is one is against poor quality food.

You have also misrepresented the Feinschmecker report.

As to your claims about the wholesale prices of extra-virging olive oils, when I asked you to give a URL to your sources, you ran away. And your claiming that Spanish olive oil can be bought cheaper than Italian is not entirely true, and you ignore the prices charged by the bucket-shop supermarkets.

The German supermarkets sell olive oil at ¤2.60 per litre. The cost of production is ¤6.50 per litre. You whine about other countries, but ignore the fact that the bucket shops are selling this oil as Italian. If they honestly sold it as "Spanish" then I would have no issue with their sales techniques, but I would still point out that they have been detected misdescribing the product.

Again, if you bother to read the review you will find examples of honestly described Spanish olive oil being sold in supermarkets and the tests conducted on those showed that they were indeed good quality EVOO. However the prices charged were ¤20.00 per litre for Spanish EVOO. That's a fair price for a good product and sustainable.

But over to you for your sources, which have been remarkable only by their absence so far.

Reply to
Steve Firth

You give the impression that anything with a price tag you believe is cheap must be poor quality.

I read what it says.

No, I just gave up when you resorted to personal abuse.

So please give us the official wholesale figures (with the source)

The prices for the crop and those charged by supermarkets were in line with the profit margins the supermarkets could expect to be made.

As I pointed out the cost of production in most of the real world wasn't

6.50 Euros - it was well below the price being charged at retail outlets. From countries outside of EU the price was also a lot lower that the final selling price in Aldi.

Why do you keep insisting that the oil sold in Aldi is Italian? Aldi do not make that claim. Even if the oil was imported into Italy and then sold on it wouldn't be illegal to sell it as Italian. The problem with identifying Irish pork on the supermarket shelves was as a result of it being exported to around 25 countries and then processed/repackaged and then being re-labelled as coming from somewhere else.

Again you equate price with quality. Supermarkets often work on single percentage point profit margins on food items. Your figure of 6.5 Euro for production and 20 Euros for sale is a large profit margin.

Common sense should tell you that if there a big increase in products on the British supermarket shelves containing olive oil , and being advertised on TV for their health benefits, it is more likely to be as result of cheap oil prices.

Reply to
Alan

It can only be a vendetta, because what other possible explanation is there for slandering a company based on non-existent "evidence".

And please don't re-assert that you have "evidence". Proof by assertion is no proof. You have some unconnected assertions that are backed up by no-one and nothing more reliable than slander.

Reply to
Bruce

So you admit your "vendetta" claim was a lie.

In that case you failed to understand it.

Another lie, at no time have you posted your claimed source.

After you, you claimed to have an official source for wholesale olive oil prices. I've given you mine before, the price I can get for wholesale of my own produce. You've made a claim, and you run away from stating what your source is. Until you validate your *prior* claim your guff remains guff.

Until you put a price on those claims and give a source, then your statement remains bluster.

You didn't "point out", you made a claim without supporting evidence.

The oil in question is sold as "Luccese", Lucca is a defined area within Italy with DOP status.

Wrong.

Was the pork a DOP product? No. So your point is irrelevant.

No I don't. You lie. I said no such thing. I pointed out that the product was good quality. It was demonstrably good quality. It also happened to cost ¤20.00 per litre which is a representative price for good quality oil of either Spanish or Italian origin.

You appear to be unaware that the bottle, label, transport, all cost money.

That's what we call a non-sequitur.

Common sense should tell you that a commodity which has a limited supply can only rise in price if demand increases.

Reply to
Steve Firth

That's a plain, and very stupid lie on your part. I have pointed to the evidence that the product in questionw as adulterated. Either you're too stupid to know what the term "adulterated" means, despite having being given the dictionary definition, or you're a mindless troll.

I'll vote for troll.

Reply to
Steve Firth

Oh bloody hell, he's going to start the olive oil bollox again.

Reply to
The Medway Handyman

Don't waste your breath Bruce. Firth is a well known wanker, universally disliked on more internet groups than you could shake a stick at.

His vendetta against Lidl & Aldi is fuelled by the fact that he is an amatuer olive oil producer and is clearly so inefficient he can't compete with market prices.

He will now no doubt launch a personal attack on me for saying so. I aint bovvered.

Reply to
The Medway Handyman

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