roundabouts

Quite so. I think it is 'speed or direction' rather than just speed,

The rule round here seems to be not at all. You are then left waiting to give way to some c**t that is intending to leave the roundabout.

I think that rule was made firm under Barbara Castle. BICBW.

The M4 still only has two lanes.

Well, the bit I was on the other day. :-)

In the recent past I have often wished that someone had not flashed or waved me in. When reasonably quiet, I am usually mentally prepared to wait so I'd actually prefer to wait. It is when it is busy I'd appreciate being let out, and no bugger does.

That used to be called velocity in my school day:-)

Indeed. And we were chastised for confusing mass and weight.

Velocity includes speed *and* direction.

I indicate as I approach if I'm turning left or right (but not if I'm going straight ahead), and then indicate left as I've just passed the exit before I want to leave - waiting until my left signal can't be misinterpreted as being for that previous exit. If I'm turning right, I leave my right indicator on until I have just passed the straight-on exit, then change it to left indicator and then move across from lane 2 to lane 1 on the roundabout in preparation for leaving.

If a roundabout only has a right-hand exit (maybe because other roads for left and straight ahead haven't been built, indicating is probably superfluous but I still indicate...

So who was defined to have priority over whom before Barbara Castle? Was it one of those dreaded cases (which are now very rare) where no-one had priority and it was a free-for-all, based on politeness. If there was no defined priority from the right at a roundabout, then I can imagine it would lead to all the faffing around and stopping on the middle of a roundabout that we saw in the IAM video.

When I'm stopped at a junction I'm always in gear and ready to set off at a moment's notice if someone takes pity on me. It's rare that I get caught with my pants down, in neutral and/or with the engine auto-stopped.

In article snipped-for-privacy@googlegroups.com, fred snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com writes

What a dumb question.

He *does* have "right of way" to the extent that he can go if it is safe because there is no other car on his right (on the approach or the roundabout) which is close enough that it would have to brake to avoid him. Otherwise everyone would stop at a roundabout and stay stopped because there was a car several hundred yards away on his right.

This would seem to be a model of rectitude.

The very large business park that I work on has access from the motorway. The junction serves only the park and a small commercial waste site.

Bushes and trees planted at the top force drivers coming up the slip-road to almost stop, with the result that they are going too slowly to take advantage of gaps in the traffic coming around the roundabout. All the vehicles stopping or nearly stopping causes a tailback, which sometimes trails right back onto the motorway, causing stationary traffic in the first lane.

The stupid thing is that removing the bushes and trees would allow drivers to adjust their speed and slot in (as roundabouts were always intended to be used).

Even worse is that they have just widened the road from the roundabout to the business park to a dual-carriageway, but did not take the opportunity to make the (newly constructed) left lane separate from the roundabout, allowing exiting motorway traffic to flow without hindrance.

SteveW

The rubric to "General rules, techniques and advice for all drivers and riders" in the Highway Code deals with "right of way":

"The rules in The Highway Code do not give you the right of way in any circumstance, but they advise you when you should give way to others."

Except that with a roundabout, if you enter before someone to your right enters, the fact that it is a circle means that you are on *his* right, but additionally are on the roundabout.

I did once train as a driving instructor (never started teaching though as other work cam along) and we were taught that it means give way to traffic that is on the roundabout and to your right. Until someone has crossed the line, everyone has equal priority.

SteveW

There were arguments on a local discussion group about whether one should indicate right when (if entering at the 6 o'clock position) the intended exits were at 9, 1 and 3, and one wanted the 1 o'clock one. There is a roundabout like that here that I use every day.

How many roundabouts were there before Barbara?

That was a big period of post war road building

In any case I think there were usually give way signs before that.

Wiki

"Widespread use of the modern roundabout began when the UK's Transport Research Laboratory engineers re-engineered and standardised circular intersections during the 1960s. Frank Blackmore led the development of the "Priority Rule" and subsequently invented the mini-roundabout to overcome capacity and safety limitations. The priority rule was found to improve traffic flow by up to 10%.[15] The design became mandatory in the United Kingdom for all new roundabouts in November 1966"