roundabouts

[Jimk]

Like bus lanes?

[Jimk]

Fit only for parking in ;-)

[fred]

On a fairly open roundabout I can see a car approaching from a road on the right. Given that I will be on the roundabout first who has the right of way? Is the rule give way to traffic on the roundabout or give way to traffic on the right? I see so many cases where because the driver entering the roundabout sees there is no traffic on his right he assumes he has right of way.

[Chris Hogg]

The Highway Code doesn't seem to be clear on this, either. In the section on Roundabouts, it says "When reaching a roundabout you should: Always give priority to the traffic coming from the right, unless you have been directed otherwise by signs, road markings or traffic lights"

and so on.

But it doesn't stipulate whether 'the traffic coming from the right' is actually on the roundabout, about to come onto the roundabout, or approaching the roundabout and fifty yards away.

I guess you have to use your common sense, much like at any road junction, along the lines of 'can I safely get out onto the roundabout before the traffic coming from the right reaches the space I'm about to occupy'.

[NY]

There are three cases:

- driver on right gets there first: he has priority and you must give way to him

- you and driver on right get there at the same time: he has priority and you must give way to him

- you get there before other driver: you don not have to give way, but should aim to be clear of the roundabout so he can pass behind you without having to brake more harshly than needed for negotiating the curve of the roundabout

There is no obligation *always* to give way to traffic on your right (on the roundabout or about to join) if you will be clear and will not affect them. Consider the case of a car on your right that is 100 yards away from the roundabout as you arrive. You don't have to stop (and it would be bad driving to do so) just because he is visible in the distance; you will have exited the roundabout on the far side long before he even crosses his give-way line.

Obviously there are boundary cases where people cut it very fine and *do* make the driver on your right brake hard to avoid hitting you. On a busy road where I can see traffic queueing to join, I expect that cars might cut it fairly fine even though I have priority over them, and I am prepared to brake harder than normal (and give them a warning hoot!) just in case. Roundabouts don't work well if there is far more traffic going in one direction, such that traffic coming from the left never gets chance to join the roundabout because there is never a large enough gap to do so: that is when peak-hours traffic lights are needed.

[nightjar]

The requirement for vehicles entering a normal roundabout* is to comply with the legal definition of give way:

'No vehicle is to cross the transverse line ... so as to be likely to endanger any person, or to cause the driver of another vehicle to change its speed or course in order to avoid an accident.'

• There are roundabouts where the traffic in the roundabout has to give way to traffic entering. E.g. the A24 northbound has priority at the B2209 roundabout.

[Scott]

Highway Code Rule 185 When reaching the roundabout you should:

• give priority to traffic approaching from your right, unless directed otherwise by signs, road markings or traffic lights

• check whether road markings allow you to enter the roundabout without giving way. If so, proceed, but still look to the right before joining

• watch out for all other road users already on the roundabout; be aware they may not be signalling correctly or at all

• look forward before moving off to make sure traffic in front has moved off.

The words 'give priority to traffic approaching from your right' are not qualified by the words 'provided that such vehicle is already on the roundabout'. However 'give way' does not mean stop so I think the test would be whether the other drive is forced to change speed or direction.

[Tricky Dicky]

Straight from the highway code

give priority to traffic approaching from your right, unless directed otherwise by signs, road markings or traffic lights.

Basically anyone approaching from your right and that might be straight ahead on a 3 road roundabout has priority, however you have to make a judgement call regards have you time to clear the way before someone approaching from the right reaches you. Essentially you should not enter if a vehicle or other means of transport has to brake in order to let you through.

Richard

[NY]

Yes, in the same way as you are not *always* required to stop at a give-way junction (eg a minor road at a T junction or crossroads), even if there is traffic coming from your left or right, providing it is far enough away that you can turn and join/cross that stream of traffic without making it slow down.

This is in contrast to a stop junction where you must come to a complete halt (and maybe put the handbrake on for a microsecond if you are taking your test!) even if there is no traffic in sight.

If I am on a major road and I see a car waiting to pull out from a minor road, I *may* take pity on them and give them a double-flash of my headlights (two flashes to make it clear I haven't accidentally caught the switch!) while I am still far enough away that they have time to get out and up to speed without me having to do more than slow down slightly. There really does need to be a proper, unambiguous signal (no headlamp flashing) to communicate this, which would silence all the people who wibble on about "but flashing headlights has only one meaning - a visible warning that you are present". It's just as much as signal as an indicator, in that it lets the other driver know your intentions (indicating left implies that another car can safely pull out from the road you're turning into; flashing your headlights (or whatever signal is used) implies that you are letting the car pull out ahead of you and will avoid him.

What I don't do is flash someone out if there's nothing behind me: he can wait an extra few seconds and pull out behind me.

[Brian Gaff (Sofa 2)]

Also if you are chasing around so fast you cannot stop before hitting the car in front you are either too fast or too close or both! Cyclists seem to think they have priority too, even over poor pedestrians, since if they can at a junction they zoom up the crossing and go onto the footway. Brian

[Tim Streater]

As far as I'm concerned it's traffic already on the roundabout. Although if some loony is approaching it at 900mph from my right I wooden push the issue.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Assuming you can negotiate the roundabout without interfering with his progress, carry on. But not if you would force him to slow down.

On the roundabout is IIRC what the HC says.

Perhaps the odd car from the right crashing into him might make him change his ways?

[The Natural Philosopher]

He has.

You should if you cant get way without causing him to brake or get close, wait.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

The key phrase is 'give way'. If you don't force the other vehicle to slow or brake, then he is not giving way to you.

Denoted by a solid, rather than broken, white line. If it is still visible.

[Chris J Dixon]

On the approaches to this roundabout:

a barrier has been erected so that you can't see traffic already on the roundabout until the last minute, presumably with the intention of making you approach the give way line more slowly, rather than speeding through if you think it is clear.

Chris

[Andy Burns]

Th council here tried a similar trick, presumably it had the opposite effect on accidents as they removed it after a couple of years

[Robin]

Nightjar's post gives what I feel is the plain meaning of the words "give way".

In addition compare the Highway Code's:

"give priority to traffic approaching from your right" with

"watch out for all other road users already on the roundabout".

Evidence that if they meant "give priority to traffic already on the roundabout on your right" they'd have said so.

[NY]

Has the give-way-to-traffic-on-the-right rule on roundabouts always applied? I ask because there's a Youtube video of a film made in 1963 by the Institute of Advanced Motorists

in which their chief examiner is commenting as he drives from London to Bath via the A4. When he gets to a roundabout in Newbury he has priority over traffic coming up the high street to join the A4 (because he's coming from its right).

But there's a car in front of him who has stopped on the roundabout to let several cars join the roundabout, and he makes no comment about this, and then he says "there's a driver [from my left] slowing down and signalling me to go, so I shall thank him and proceed" as if it wasn't a foregone conclusion that traffic from his left should stop.

But things were a lot more leisurely. Later on, in Marlborough at

the road curves round to the right and a car is waiting on a side road that joins on the outside of that bend. "There's a car coming out of that turning on my left. He's waiting for me so I'm going to accept his courtesy". It's not really courtesy; it's complying with the rules of the road that you wait at a give way or stop junction for traffic on the main road to go past.

However it's not all courtesy and good manners. Look at

in which he's following another car that overtaking in Lane 2 of the M4 (when it only had 2 lanes!). It stays in Lane

2 and doesn't move over to let him past, so he gives several long blasts on his horn, which comes over as surprisingly aggressive - not surprising that the other driver gives him a V sign "I can't think why he should think I'm interested in his politics!".

[FMurtz]

In Australia the rule is clear, you should give way to traffic already in the roundabout, I would imagine that your rules are similar,there is no give way to the right, give way means that if there is a danger of them hitting you or have to brake you should give way, it does not mean you have to wait for an empty round about In your case you would have the right but would be silly to force the issue resulting in an accident even though they would be in the wrong

[Robin]

but /significantly/ different in that you have the restriction to "already on" that we don't.

And which seems to me a recipe for fun at mini-roundabouts as whoever gets there first has priority.