Redrilling existing holes in timber at a different angle

[Bert Coules]

A good point, though in my case the angled rails are not going to be too long: around thirty inches, I think.

[Bert Coules]

Well doing that would certainly eliminate the annoying need to re-drill the holes at an angle, wouldn't it? But I fear it would also look a tad strange. As I said, experimentation suggests that though there is a difference it's a fairly marginal one and I'll be able to use the spindles provided.

This does point up another tricky area though: quite apart from angling the holes correctly I also have to ensure that they're all of a constant depth, and the right depth too.

[Bert Coules]

My usual approach. Slightly (but only slightly, I'm hoping) trickier when drilling at an angle.

[Tricky Dicky]

A plunge router with an adapted base plate ie. wedge shaped would ensure the angle was correct and the depth stop set for the correct depth would probably be the most accurate way to solve those problems. You could even devise a method of pegging the jig from a previously drilled hole to get the spacings correct and repeatable.

Richard

[Roger Mills]

As long as you like. You move it sideways to drill the next hole.

[Roger Mills]

That's where the pillar drill and jog scores. You can set the depth stop on the drill.

[Tricky Dicky]

The only issue with a pillar drill is whether you use a sloping jig or have one where the table can be angled is the length of the handrail for a full stair length you will find yourself either hitting the floor or ceiling and dealing with quite a long protrusion at the extreme ends. You can get pillar drills where the head tilts but they are a rare beast.

Richard

[Bert Coules]

OK, one side is (almost) done. Neither the railings nor the spindles are actually fixed in place yet, this was a test assembly.

I'm moderately pleased with it: the rails are parallel and the spindles are vertical and evenly spaced (not as easy to achieve as perhaps it sounds, given the hole-elongations). There's some filling required around the ends of both the rails and the spindles but nothing drastic. I made one mistake ("What do you mean, only one?" I hear people cry) which I'll rectify, or at least disguise, tomorrow, weather permitting.

And then I have to do the other side...

[Bert Coules]

Thanks.

Actually, the spindles have enough length to permit dropping just the lower rail a little - and if I'm being honest, the mistake I made was in the placing of the lower brackets: the rail doesn't exactly line up with its horizontal neighbour, but is slightly higher - but I don't think I'll do it until I know for sure if it's necessary in order to meet the regs. I've ordered a 100mm diameter expanded polystyrene ball from eBay.

Either way, I'm glad I decided to tackle the less exposed side of the steps first, as a rehearsal for doing the other side. Lessons have been learned.

[Bert Coules]

Oh now that's an interesting thought. It would be necessary to drop the brackets enough to ensure that the new screw holes were far enough from the existing ones to avoid any problems (unless I were to fill the current ones, of course) but it's worth bearing in mind.

Not to go all health-and-safety mad, but I wonder if there's a possible drawback in having the vertical height of the top rail change, even slightly, between the horizontal and sloping sections? Though I suppose the presence of the post means it doesn't matter: it's not as though anyone can keep a grip on the rail all the way across and then down.

[Bert Coules]

Jimk,

Do you mean along these lines? Yes, I think that would look good. Thanks for the idea.

Link to image:

[Bert Coules]

Jimk,

You were right. The effect is more apparent on the top rail than the bottom, partly due to perspective, partly to another mistake on my part, but I do like the improvement. Thanks.

Link to image:

[Roger Mills]

For full length stair rails, perhaps. But, from the photo, these are only about 3' long - so unlikely to it floor or ceiling.

[Roger Mills]

I know there are regs for internal staircases, but are you sure that they apply to externals steps like these? I've got some similar steps up to the back door of my garage, with no rails at all!

[Bert Coules]

I did check some time back and found this:

That's quoted (from Document K of the regs) on this site, which is dedicated to outdoor decks and steps:

[Roger Mills]

It says "This regulation details that stairs should be designed, constructed and installed so that they are safe for people to use when moving between different levels *in* buildings." [My emphasis on "in"]. Neither your steps or my steps are IN a building.

[Bert Coules]

Thanks for that. Perhaps I shouldn't have accepted as relevant the fact that the quote appears on a site about outdoor decking. I'll take a a look at the regs themselves, though I recall from previous occasions that they can be less than clear in some areas.

As it happens, I would have installed railings anyway, required by the regs or not. But perhaps not on both sides.

[Bert Coules]

That clears the question up; thanks.

[John Rumm]

One trick for accurately spacing holes is to use a jig that has a peg or similar that will fit into the hole you just drilled. So you drill the first hole, then insert the peg on the jog into and drill the next.

I quite often use that technique for things like shelf support holes. e.g:

[John Rumm]

The way this is usually done on new rails etc, is the rail does not have holes in it at all - just a rebate about 1/2" deep and the width of the end of the spindle cut into it all the way along. Same for the base rail.

The spindles are then fixed using short infill blocks made to the depth and width of the rebate. The ends cut at the slope of the stair.

The block goes into the rebate, then the spindle end, then the next block and so on. Once the blocks are pinned in place all the spindle ends are then "trapped" in a perfectly sized recess formed between the sides of the rail, and the ends of the infill blocks.

(let me know if that does not make sense, and I can draw it for you)