Re: OT: Why you should not use Windows : issue 1

On Thu, 7 Jan 2016 14:31:14 +0000, The Natural Philosopher

No, nothing as complex as any of that ... it's because all of the companies listed would rather risk loosing billions than employ even one Linux geek (and OSX can often be administered by a 'normal person'). ;-)
HTH.
Cheers, T i m
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On Thu, 07 Jan 2016 14:31:14 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Maybe they never tested any Linux versions to start with ? We run an intranet that was *sold* as "works on all major browsers. Turns out it only "runs" on IE9. We found this out when I commented it looked shit in Chrome (my browser of choice).
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True that Windows seems most vulnerable to this.

Windows 7 is still being supported.

I could upgrade to 10 for free if I wanted to.
<Retires from the discussion cos not interested pointless endless discussions....>
--
Chris French


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On 07/01/16 16:16, T i m wrote:

Why are you lying Tim? Its nothing to do with Linux at the host site. Its everything to do with windows in the desktop.
Or is reading another skill you find hard to acquire?
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The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Why oh why do you Linux users always turn to abuse?
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On 07/01/16 18:55, Mr Pounder Esquire wrote:

I learnt it from Windows fanbois Mr Pounder. I thought that was the correct way to behave after T I M posted this:

>>> it's because all of the >>> companies listed would rather risk loosing billions than employ even >>> one Linux geek
Not that T i m can't spell 'losing', which makes my statement less an insult and more a statement of fact, anyway.
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The Natural Philosopher wrote:

You are going off your rocker. I used to take you reasonably seriously until this thread. If this what Linux does to the brain I'll will never allow it into my mighty cranium.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4w3KTQLQzw

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On 07/01/16 20:51, Mr Pounder Esquire wrote:

What makes you think it would want to go there?
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It might get lost in all that empty space.
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(\_/)
(='.'=) Bunny says: Windows 10? Nein danke!
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On 07/01/2016 8:51 PM, Mr Pounder Esquire wrote:

Linux runs the Space Station. The 'United Space Alliance' decided enough was enough.
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wrote:
<snip> > Linux runs the Space Station.
Linux is 'used' on the ISS, yes, however:
"International Space Station incorporating more Linux computers ..."
"[Update 5/10/13 9 p.m. EST: We heard from Kieth Chuvala below who said his comments with the Linux Foundation have been misconstrued. The ISS does use Linux as well as Windows, and has no plans to ditch Windows any time soon. This story has been updated to reflect Chuvala’s correction.]"
http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/international-space-station-ditches-windows-for-linux/

Or, more like the OS they had been using up to then for what, 12 years, had just gone out of support and they used that opportunity to go to several different Linux distros because:
"Chuvala said both organizations were interested in an open source operating system like Linux because it would give them in-house control. “So if we needed to patch, adjust or adapt, we could,” "
It's like all the Linux nerds getting excited about Steam 'now being available on Linux' [1] ... again, only 10 years after being available on Windows!.
Oh well, better late than never. ;-)
Cheers, T i m
p.s. I wonder how many years it will be before NASA replaces the Microsoft HoloLens headsets on the ISS with Linux based ones? ;-)
[1] Did steam ever actually release the long awaited 'Steam Engine' Linux based games console?
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On 18/01/2016 12:13 AM, T i m wrote:

Hiya Tim
I can't disagree with anything you say. I too, have dependency on Windows.
The Yin & Yang of the moment is, the traditionalist wants the comfort of stability while many others argue it could be done better.
All companies are 'the best' of choice while, ironically, striving to be better than they are.
Open source is attractive; it offers more of everything. This in turn means less users per 'thing'. So, when it comes to marketing, what is the ideal goal?
MS, on the other hand, has done very well in establishing itself. Use of marketing and ruthless takeovers has put MS on a very strong footing. Any hardware/firmware producer IS going to consider the reach of MS as the only real way to go.
However, MS, now having the world at it's feet, is drawing in the net, literally, and the only way out is through that narrow section that drops you into the MS Hold.
It is indeed the tool that has advanced many technologies but I do not like where it is going.
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wrote:

You may have dependency on it but that's not an argument for letting it anywhere near a critical system.
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nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted" -- Bill of Rights 1689
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wrote:
<snip> >Hiya Tim
Yo. ;-)

Well you could, but you would be wrong. ;-)

Many do, in spite of them being fanatical about alternative OS's, which must be really frustrating for them.

Oh, no one has ever argued any of it couldn't be done better.

We hope. ;-)

It is, *if* you are one of those who are interested in such things and / or might be able to make use of it. For the vast majority it doesn't matter if it's open or closed source.

It offers *some* more of everything. AFAIK, it offers me little extra of anything?
'Freeware', is of use to *me* because it gives me useful tools and games for 'free'.

I'm not quite sure I follow Ray?

It has, like Apple, by offering people something they are familiar with, can get support for and that offers them (in most cases without realising it because it's the 'de-facto standard ...) the greatest range of hardware and software.

They are 'A Company' after all and therefore doing no more than any other company would do?

If you have their sort of money then you can normally get what you want. However, 'many companies' are bullish when it comes to takeovers and will also stop to all sorts of 'dirty-practices' (as some might call it, again others call it 'just business') to do what they feel is best. Some companies (and even whole Countries) will 'dump' products on the market to force their competitors out of business.

Of course, but that is never guaranteed, even with MS.

Well, most will and do because they too have employees with families that need food and shelter.

You might only consider it to be that way if you aren't happy to 'buy into' their system? There are many many million people are very happy to spend hundreds of pounds on Apple products, often much more money that alternative products from other manufacturers simply because they like what they like. In general, people like what *works* for them.

Quite, but anyone who has an interest in an OS or is 'bothered' about the marketing / security implications will then have to make a decision to 'step away' from anything they don't like or remove such features if possible, just as they did with Unity when Canonical added all the search stuff to their Ubuntu.
When I install Windows 10 I get the option to not 'opt in' to a whole load of things some might consider 'unnecessary' intrusions into their use of an OS. I generally do 'opt out' to all of them, simply because I don't need any of the features that they offer (like my geographic location on a map on a home based PC or to share my WiFi logins across my other machines), but many may find them very useful features?
I like the idea of 'free' (of cost), I like the idea of 'free' (as in freedom), I also like the idea of 'Open Source' (because that means that some *other people* might be able to modify some code to suit their own needs better (NASA etc) and 'a million eyes' *might* be checking the same code to make sure it's all it should be (and not what it shouldn't). Unfortunately, *most people* wouldn't put either of those above being able to play their favourite game (Flash or otherwise) or being able to get music from the iTMS and *easily* put it on their iDevice. Few of these people are interested in the 'how', they are only interested in what it allows them to do and often the price is irrelevant.
So, bring out an OS that runs on the hardware most people already have, make it as easy to maintain and as well supported by hardware and software companies as what is being used now and make it more 'ethical' than what is out there now and I can see it being a success, even if you had to pay for it. But for it to be of interest to the vast majority, it *has* to be easier for them to do what they want, not what 'some nerd' things they should have.
So, if a hardware and software company can come up with a stylish and trendy solution (because to many people 'stylish and trendy' is important to them and those devices) that could replace the iTMS / iTunes / iDevice combination and market it to the trendy people and make it say cheaper, they *may* just consider trying such the next time they drop and break their iDevice (especially if they can still put the music the have paid for on the iTMS on said new device with a couple of clicks).
At the moment, there are no alternative OS's that would offer all the above that are 'better' than Windows, and that's accepting that Windows is in no way perfect.
And that's not just my opinion ... that's the fairly static 5% of users who use Linux or the 10% who use OSX compared with the 15% of people who have already taken up W10 in the 5 months it's been out?
http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_os.asp
Cheers, T i m
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On 07/01/2016 18:04, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

One of the things which is amusing about you is your impressive ability to accuse people of exactly the thing you're doing yourself.
Tim wrote something else to what you think, something which you might even agree with, but you've chosen to interpret it incorrectly.
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On 07/01/16 19:16, Clive George wrote:

What t i m wrote, is nothing to to with what the link I posted has to say.
Which is all about the installation of malware on a client side computer. I pointed out that only Windows and OSX machines were affected, and like a great pike he lunges up and takes the troll, and spouts off at a totally irrelevant tangent, that has nothing to do with what I said,. or the link said.
Whether what he said was a gratuitous insult, or merely an example of utter irrelevancy syndrome*, I don't know, but it suggests he didn't read the link or didn't understand it if he did.
*One of the Final Placement Syndromes identified by Laurence Peter, when an employee has risen to his level of incompetence. He indulges in behaviour that is utterly irrelevant in order to disguise the fact he hasn't a clue what to actually do.
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On Thu, 7 Jan 2016 19:27:22 +0000, The Natural Philosopher

Oh lighten up FFS old man!
You offered a link and comment questioning why people didn't use Linux in that instance:
"Of all the instances of MitB in the article every single one uses windows as the vehicle apart from oner OS/X, Not one uses Linux."
You then asked why?
"How come? could it be that Microsoft doesn't develop code to make it better, faster, smaller, moire secure, more resilient, but just to make last years code redu7nbdant, so you have to pay to upgrade?"
I offered a reason and once again you have reinforced my comment more that I could have ever done.
"There's a grain of truth in every joke" ... or more than a grain in your case. ;-)
Now, I know you Linux geeks love challenge so can you please tell me how I might be able to scan from Ubuntu 14.04 and my Ricoh SP C250sf MFP please? I have got it to print ok (the nearest model was the SP C222sf) but if I start up Simple Scan I can't see where I would choose the scanner and after a bit it locks up in any case and then offers to force quit itself. ;-(
It prints and Scans from W10 perfectly (dual boot on the same PC) so I know it's all connected ok. Oh, and I upgraded the printer firmware using a Windows utility. There was an OSX one but no mention of Linux. ;-(
Then I opened my 3D printing program RepetierHost and it told me there was a new version. I downloaded, and extracted it but had to Google how to run the configuration utility they supply (from the CLI so loads of working my way round the folders). It looks like it's done something but mentioned Mono and .Net and I don't have a clue what to do with it now. Oh well, at least I can always just reboot into Windows and do stuff ...
Cheers, T i m
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On 07/01/16 19:55, T i m wrote:

Er no. You failed to understand the article.
TYou STILL dont 8ndresatdn the article so yoiur attempt a t a joke is - well weid.
L:ets put it in simple words for 6you.
Me: Why do hackers always target windows? You: because big companies don't employ Linux geeks
So what big companies are these?. Are you suggesting that big companies are writing viruses?

Tim I am not sure you are completely sane.
Your joke makes so little sense its not fujnny.
I mean If you said "why are most cars driven by petrol engines?" and I said "Because Corbyn eats nuts", that would be a joke?

Because that scanner is not even partially supported.

WE have already established you are too stupid to run Linux. Go back to windows XP.

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On Thu, 7 Jan 2016 20:42:37 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
<snip weirdness>

Is it not? Do you have access to some for of definitive list of what is or isn't supported please?

Whilst you could be right, I think it's more about administrating Linux is to me what driving a Motorcycle and sidecar is to riding a bike solo.

Apart from not actually needing (or wanting) your opinions on such matters (have I ever said anything like that to you?), to 'go back to XP' I'd have to have first left it, and I can't can I, apart to any Windows version including and after XP or even OSX possibly (especially if I want to scan from my new_to_me MFP)?
No, I'll carry on doing what I choose to do re when I get a new bit of kit, I set it up on all the machines in the house, for them to use or just the S&G's.
It looks like this will be just another example of Linux being 'ok' (it found the printer and I can print to it ok) but not 'good enough'. I keep trying because that has to change / improve ... doesn't it?
Just for some more S&G's, I might reboot into OSX and see how that fares.
Cheers, T i m
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On Thu, 7 Jan 2016 21:31:33 +0000, The Natural Philosopher

Yup, perfectly classic response for a Linux geek (and why it continues to fail on the desktop where ordinary people might need help).
Cheers, T i m
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