On Fri, 8 Jan 2016 12:48:12 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
I'm not sure we all do and some (most) don't know but don't care
either, even if it was.
But whilst that popularity has come about to some degree simply
'because' <list of things like it's often pre-installed>, for people
to find an alternative they have to have the need to look somewhere
The *only* real alternative for most people is OSX and for the same
people that is often perfectly ok (or better, depending on their
And the lack of a real need to see out alternatives (or we would all
be running OSX, and we aren't).
You wouldn't need anything to attract women ... admitting to being a
'Linux geek' should be enough. ;-)
Cheers, T i m
Robert X. Cringely (yes, really) wrote a book called Accidental Empires
which details how all that happened. It takes the piss out of Jobs and
Gates as well - the subtitle is "how the boys of silicon valley made
their millions and still couldn't get a date".
A good read if you want to understand the early days of Silicon Valley
and how billg made his millions from the piece of shit that is Windows.
(='.'=) Bunny says: Windows 10? Nein danke!
Every financial institution is rammed with *nix machines. Just not on
[4 lines snipped]
Nope. Corporates don't allow their users admin access to their machines,
anti-virus is up to date and the machines aren't allowed to talk directly
to the Internet. At least in any corporate where they know what they're
Today is Boomtime, the 7th day of Chaos in the YOLD 3182
I don't have an attitude problem.
And that's the bottom line on all this isn't, the ability (interest?)
to try to make sense of stuff *and* the (ideally not) 'going off on
I thought we were all mates here (well, as much as any disparate group
of nutters could be) and it's 'all done in the best possible taste'?
I don't 'hate Linux' in just the same way I don't 'Love' Windows, it's
just atm, I can't get, or Linux won't do, many of the things I
(personally) want to do.
This Ricoh printer is a classic example of the sort of failing I see
over and over.
So, I'm *given* a fairly new printer by a mate (he got fed up with it
not being online when he needed it so got something else). I therefore
don't have much choice in the 'what' or it's compatibility with any
OS. I knew it was Windows compatible because that was what my mate was
using and I looked online and also saw drivers and utilities for OSX.
So, the first thing I did when I got it was reset it to factory
defaults (then I have a known starting point) and found it on my Lan
(from W10) with an ip scanner I could have checked the printer panel
but it's upstairs and I'm not <g>).
I then used the Windows utility to upgrade the firmware (from W10 and
using the ip address, over the LAN). Ricoh offered an OSX version
that I didn't try. No Linux version that I could see so I have no idea
how you could upgrade the firmware with Linux.
W10 couldn't find the printer on its own and didn't offer a specific
driver when I gave it the ip address. However, it did offer a list of
Ricoh drivers and possibly the one for that specific printer but I'd
already downloaded the one for my printer for W10 32 bit from the
Ricoh site and told W10 to use that. I then installed the scanner
driver / until found the printer on it's own and I scanned over the
Then I rebooted into Ubuntu 14.04 and opened the printer app. I
clicked Add and 'Network Printer' and it found the printer
Automagically. It then didn't have the specific model so I chose the
nearest match and a test print came out ok. I've yet to make sure it
can use the duplexer but I have my fingers crossed.
I opened 'Simple Scan' but ignoring the fact that it seems to lock up,
I'm not sure how I could tell it to use the Network Printer-scanner,
(or any specific scanner) even if I wanted it to?
Is there a more capable scanner package that I could try do you know
As it happens, it doesn't really matter if it isn't supported but
would be a(nother) deal breaker if I actually wanted to make Linux my
Cheers, T i m
Oh indeed, and none moreso (from my experience so far) than in the
Yes, you are right, it definitely seems to bring the whole 'tribal /
gang' mentality out in some.
And whilst I'm sure there must (will) be some fanatics in the Windows
n/gs (I say that because I've never had need to use them myself, not
needing help nor being a Windows advocate etc), in most cases I
believe most Windows users (especially the non-technical ones), really
CGAF about the 'OS' on their computers, wanting it to be as
transparent > invisible as possible.
It's only once you get to those solutions that are considered as
'alternatives' (to Windows), like OSX and Linux, do you generally se
this defensive attitude rearing it's ugly head.
But then I guess some of that is to be expected ... just like any
minority they must get fed up being (as they see it as 'picked on')
when they could probably avoid most of it by addressing the genuine
issues people raise (or at least accepting them honestly) and then
trying to find a solution, or at least a 'work-round'.
To be fair I'm nearly as happy with an honest 'it doesn't work on <OS
brand>' as at least I then know it's just not me or some faulty
Cheers, T i m
I've worked with some extreme windows advocates, and it's alternately
painful and amusing.
No, it's about the people. The same attitudes come from all over.
I'm not entirely sure why you're expecting TNP to solve your driver
problems in this thread. Obviously there is one option available to you
under Linux which will be harder on the other OS's - write your own. But
TBH unless you really want/need it to work on that particular
OS/hardware, there have to be better things to do with your life than
trying to force it into going. Even TNP runs some software under windows.
well exactly. I use Linux for as much as possible, because its just
safer and better, but if I have to use the dreaded Microsnot, I get a
box of tissues and blow hard.
I wasted many years looking after Windows, its a relief not to have to
deal with it.
"What do you think about Gay Marriage?"
On Fri, 08 Jan 2016 00:04:35 +0000, Clive George
<snip good stuff>
I'm not. It's more a challenge / example of the very thing he
constantly denies exists (ordinary people trying to use Linux).
That's not an opportunity open to me of course (on any OS). ;-)
I know, it was just an real life, right now example of why Linux isn't
what the likes of TNP insist it is, not for the non Linux geek
If he hadn't repeatedly called me a liar and accused me of making
stuff up (like if he had been normal / reasonable / honest I mean),
then I wouldn't be challenging him (to put up or shut up) like I am
He insists that he has never had any issues installing stuff or
running stuff on Linux. Maybe he only uses it as a typewriter. ;-)
Really in a sense that is true. Like many users all I generally do is
write - blogs, usenet, emails and code. So yes, it is a glorified
typewriter, a bit of a TV set, and occasionally something I use to
compile code on. It runs skype as well, I have some games I play..very
normal user in fact. I edit pictures and videos a bit, and rip DVDs for
my online library.
And apart from compiling code, I don't go near the command line.
The point being that actually, I don't, I run it using Virtualbox/XP or
wine under Linux So it cant crash or infect my whole computer.
And all that proves, is that the world hasn't caught up with linux yet.
Not that windows is 'better'
IN the end your argument boils down to 'I have stuff that only works on
windows so I run windows' and mine boils down to 'I have stuff that only
runs on windows, So I run linux with Wine and XP in a VM, because its a
far better experience than native windows'.
The theory of Communism may be summed up in one sentence: Abolish all
On Fri, 8 Jan 2016 12:45:48 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
I guessed. ;-)
Exactly, little of which (excepting say a webcam for Skype or the
drivers for the TV card, both of which I have got and installed on
Linux <g>) involves interfacing external stuff, like 3D printers or
GPS's, OBD diagnostic tools, Endoscopes etc etc.
And it seems I'm having to go near the CLI more than anyone only using
Linux as a typewriter / web-terminal (and why I have been having
'more' issues than most). I have also possibly installed, or tried to
install Linux on more machines than most, as I go to try it on any
hardware I'm testing.
No, the 'point is' you are actually running XP, be it on a VM or not,
because you *have to* to get the Windows programs you *need* running.
I'll give you that with WINE it's not quite as much of Windows as
Windows in a VM. ;-)
No, you are back to the tail wagging the dog. For people to want Linux
(on the desktop) it has to offer ordinary people a better and
as-complete experience than all the alternatives. What is a bit of a
shame is there may well be plenty of people who could be happier
running Linux who have simply never even heard of it.
Everyone who has met me has heard of it and many have seen it running
(because of me). ;-)
Never said that (in general). I might be considered 'better' (than
Linux specifically here) by the many million (billions) of people who
do like and use iTunes (for example).
Alongside Linux, OSX and Android, yes.
Yes, but the strange thing is at the same time as *having* to run
Windows to do some of the things you need and want to do, you diss it?
That comes across as a bit strange to me. Ok, I'm not saying you
should love it (it's just an OS after all) but you cannot deny that it
serves a purpose for you and it would be difficult to do without.
No one holds that against you BTW, (many of us use multiple OS's for
their own advantages) but we don't generally diss one that we rely on?
Cheers, T i m
Good grief. Its you that are strange. If I have to walk through mud in
my gumboots to take the dog for a walk, and I hate the mud because it
sticks to my boots, is it that strange?
Windows may be a necessary evil, but that doesn't make it a good.
The biggest threat to humanity comes from socialism, which has utterly
diverted our attention away from what really matters to our existential
On Fri, 8 Jan 2016 15:17:37 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
No, but having use of a footbridge, even though you are afraid of
heights and doing so lessened the chance of you getting your feet wet
or not crossing the river (then moaning about having to cross using a
bridge or dissing 'bridges') is more like what you are actually doing.
Never said it was (or that you should say it was). Did you know there
were other colours that black and white? ;-)
Cheers T i m
Ignoring for the moment that you have misunderstood the scenario,
you are also completely wrong about financial services not
employing Linux geeks. They are full of Linux/Unix geeks.
Windows is used for desktops and some applications, but the
Enterprise infrastructure and all large apps run on Linux/Unix.
OSX is irrelevant since Apple exited the server space many years ago,
although a significant percentage of geeks do choose to use Macbooks
for their own portable computing requirements.
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]
On Thu, 7 Jan 2016 21:27:50 -0000 (UTC), email@example.com
(Andrew Gabriel) wrote:
I'm not wrong because I assumed that to be the case (all you say). I
was joking remember (even if I miss read the table etc).
Yes, and I know that as well, especially so since Apple went Intel and
said Geeks could then also run Windows natively. ;-)
I know many that have told me such and did so myself with my (3) Intel
Cheers, T i m
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