Re: OT: Scotland and Vax Passports

So are you worried it would harm you, or just don't think it would benefit you or those around you?

I'm sure it presents me less risk than covid itself did. But I got over it. I'm an odd one Andy, I treat my body like s*it, i'm an overweight pisspot but I don't like putting anything artificial in it.

It frustrates people that I will only take painkillers when i'm in agony.

Yes, I am convinced by the above. I am not reckless, I am a wimp and IMO generally less selfish than most. I am a mug, a carpet, a walkover.

Is covid going to be a one off? Temporary? Or are we setting a mandate for annual project fear at the slightest sniffle followed by queues for the latest intravenous offering and power pissed politicians telling us when we can and can't leave the house?

And I don't know enough about it... but, how do we feel about the mass vaccination of healthy people against diseases they are equipped to fight off naturally?

Do we trust our governments? The media? Big pharma?

It's all making me anxious for the future so as it stands i'd rather be one of the resistors than get in the queue.

I'm more concerned about society as a whole than those who are at the most risk immediately from covid. Apologies again to the latter group.

I notice you constantly evade the point about those needing medical treatment for other reasons having that treatment delayed or worse due to unvaccinated Covid cases cluttering up the hospitals. And some have died because of this too.

Not surprised, though. You seem to be a me me me type.

I'd suggest you do find out, then. Rather than relying on some extremely iffy information from your pals, etc.

Getting on for 150,000 people have died of it. Many others suffer from long covid.

If your idea is to let nature take its course, I hope you remember that next time you are ill. And pretty well everyone needs major medical attention at some point in their life.

And so do the rest of you, can't you see that?

No Dave, you want me to take a bunch of chemicals pumped into me you do enough research to convince me they are necessary and safe. It's on you mate. I don't want them and i've demonstrated why i'm sure I don't need them, you want me to take them though, don't you? So *you* put the legwork in my friend!

Because figures suggest that there had been fewer than average deaths during several years prior to covid, so covid picked off the 'low hanging fruit'.

Not from an effing winter cold!

You really are thick stupid and selfish,

The excess deaths are without the flu that never happened well in excess of 120,000

This is a reliable statistic: if you subtract the expected deaths from flu that wouldn't happen under lockdown its over 160k.

It doesn't matter whether these people died of old age covid or heart disease. Without covid they wouldn't have died. I nearly died of covid without ever catching it.

And now teh new strain is hacking away at the under 50s

For E&W only, overall probably 50,000 given that 'only' 98,000 excess deaths have occurred (the latest data is up to July 2021, but the excess figure was falling, and looked set to continue falling at that time), the numbers were actually already down in the 3 months before the pandemic started.

Oh good lord, the rudeness i'm being subjected to!!!!!

I don't believe I am thick or stupid but yes, I am selfish. Are you? Serious question... Are you?

Please can you or anyone else explain why you think I, or society at large, owe(s) you anything?

Around 150 are still dying every day, having had a positive Covid diagnosis in the preceding 28 days. While undoubtedly some would have died even if they had never had Covid, what proportion is this likely to be?

Collins GEM English Dictionary society n., pl. -ties. human beings considered as a group; organized community; structure and institutions of such a community; organized group with common aims and interests; upper-class or fashionable people collectively; companionship.

And evades - in fact, ignores - it once again in their reply. Ironically to take the opportunity to describe anyone who disagrees selfish.

You've learned absolutely nothing from this conversation. Open your mind.

Why do you believe you, as an individual, have an absolute right to take part in society at large?

Human rights regulations are framed only from an individual's perspective. "Society" is essentially other people.

If your personal behaviour does not fit with that of others in society (be it something as simple as visiting pubs or restaurants) then these others are under no obligation to accomodate your demands.

An elected government can determine who uses social establishments as a condition of licensing (not just alcohol sales) and can also determine if such an establishment is permitted to operate at all.

I wonder if RDS is assuming "self-interest" must mean "selfish".

He appears to use "selfish" to mean "self-interest".

His ideas seem poorly thought through.

No. Not really. Unlike driving on the left, precautionary vaccination is a personal choice. To be effective, it relies on individuals accepting some inconvenience for the benefit of an unconnected group.

Modern democratic society relies on legal sanctions and voluntary action. The alternative is some version of Orwell's 1984.

You have to admit, it's pretty rare for everyone here to agree on anything, does that not convince you to think again?

Andy Burns snipped-for-privacy@andyburns.uk wrote

That isn't what happened. I don’t agree that him choosing not to get vaccinated is irresponsible or selfish. Just misguided until he caught the virus.

Clearly even when he did get infected and recovered fine, he didn’t actually do anything bad to the hospital system or anyone else.

No reason why it should.